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What's with apple and their super-privacy stance lately? First his letter, and now his interview. Not that I mind it, but I feel like they're expecting somethin

What's with apple and their super-privacy stance lately? First his letter, and now his interview. Not that I mind it, but I feel like they're expecting something bad to come out soon.

tdkl 11y ago
A business strategy perhaps ? Considering everyone else is in the surveillance-as-a-service monetization model.
PhasmaFelis 11y ago
Apple is essentially the only major US tech company that doesn't rely heavily on advertising income (and thus on online profiling to target ads effectively), and they've realized that this gives them a moral high horse from which to attack their competitors without actually having to change any of their own habits.
- iosys 11y ago
  I wouldn't necessarily say, they have suddenly realized this; they have been leading by example for user experience for awhile and are now just being more public about it. Nobody that really understands the problem of no privacy between government or another collecting agency knows enough to weight it on purchasing their device or going with their OS for their phone, tablet, or laptop. If more people knew, how it could be for collecting every single thing from a user, i'm sure apple products would sell more, so I do agree with your point, that it is better to now advertise this.
- Cookingboy 11y ago
  Neither Amazon nor Microsoft rely heavily on advertising income. Neither does IBM, HP, Oracle, Cisco, Salesforce, etc. In fact when it comes to "major US tech companies", either by revenue or by market cap, I can only think of Facebook and Google that make money mainly from advertising income.
  - derefr 11y ago
    Everybody you listed, excepting Amazon, make the majority of their revenue from the enterprise, not the consumer. B2B companies don't need to use privacy as a differentiator, and would gain no advantage by doing so; enterprises want "managed" software that enables them to spy on their employees. Amazon, the consumer-focused exception, makes their money on physical products not produced by them, and on cloud services—both of which are mostly privacy-neutral as far as third parties go. Amazon knows what you tell Amazon (your shopping history; your AWS API calls) but their business model doesn't involve giving that information to anybody else. They could theoretically take a stance on privacy, but they aren't doing much to enable privacy; just coincidentally avoiding doing anything that negates it.
  - PhasmaFelis 11y ago
    "Consumer-focused major US tech companies," then. Hell, the logic still applies even if it's only directed at Google, who Apple seems to consider its arch-nemesis. (And while they may not be specifically selling ads, Amazon's business model is absolutely heavily invested in invasive ad tracking, which was my point. Witness how Amazon products that you look at but don't immediately buy follow you around the Web for fucking weeks.)
- ariwilson 11y ago
  Apple has also failed in their own advertising efforts (iAd) and additionally failed to catch up in the software service business (almost all of the mass market services are monetized via advertising). Their privacy stance is the only move left to them.
  - interpol_p 11y ago
    I always saw iAd not as a money-maker, but as Apple's thoughts on what advertising should be. That is, it was their way to try to make ads less tacky for their devices — especially noticeable in the initial million-dollar ad sales to high profile brands. The messaging was all about how slick and polished and pretty they were, and how expensive. Unfortunately Apple failed to realise banner ads are tacky no matter how much polish you throw at them.
- pdkl95 11y ago
  This popular talking point conveniently ignores that ads not the only way companies can benefit form spying. The HN crowd absolutely loves using "analytics" to try and divine ways to make their products more profitable. Microsoft even uses this as an excuse for Win10's "telemetry" spyware: they say it's to improve the product. Yet when Apple spies on its users, suddenly it's ok because Apple isn't an ad company. Apple is using this topic to attack their customers, but they are not exactly on moral high ground.
  - PhasmaFelis 11y ago
    Tracking crashes, interface pain points, etc. is, in itself, a perfectly legit thing for a developer to do. There's been all kinds of software, open-source and otherwise, that asks for permission to phone home with usage logs for roughly as long as there's been broad internet adoption. Win10 telemetry is hated mainly because they're so dishonest about it: you're encouraged to use default settings on installation, they're very secretive about what info is actually gathered and about what the settings do, and they straight-up lie about some of the things you can supposedly disable.
fletchowns 11y ago
> But what they don't want to do, they don't want your email to be read, and then to pick up on keywords in your email and then to use that information to then market you things on a different application that you're using. ... Sounds like they are taking jabs at one of their biggest competitors, Google.
IkmoIkmo 11y ago
They have no business model based on consumer information. Guess who does? One of their big competitors, Google, whose revenues are 90% made up of advertising, thrives on this data. Further, privacy is obviously a hot topic, well at least in tech discourse. None of my friends are really bothered by any privacy concerns and couldn't care less if Google mines their email to provide targeted ads, honestly... But to the extent that privacy is meaningful to people, safeguarding it is obviously a benefit and thereby something one can sell, and seeing as there've been so many different scandals people probably are at least somewhat sensitive to privacy-centric marketing. In short, they're selling a consumer benefit while taking a jab at the competition. Not a bad deal, there are barely any cons. Apple never really got into the advertising game, doesn't need to and unlikely plans to. They've had some ad products and neglected it for a long time, probably in large part because ads are a shitty consumer experience and Apple tries to offer the best experience even if that requires higher consumer prices. And finally it's completely in line with Apple's business models on content in the past, creating walled gardens to push paid content (music, books, news, apps), advertising doesn't really fit into that context. Consider also that it's obviously in line with Apple being the 'nice guys', who recycle materials, appreciate diversity, the artists who just want to be free blabla. Businesses or governments tracking users doesn't fit that narrative and protecting users from these parties does. And finally, I do believe they genuinely care without any ulterior motive and are willing to push for the things they care about if it doesn't hurt them (much).
knice 11y ago
I think they see this as a key differentiator between iOS/iCloud and Google services and they want the public to know about it. In a post-Snowden world, it's worth noting the difference between platforms that prioritize user privacy and platforms that share user data with advertisers in return for additional services.
hannibalhorn 11y ago
They did have a pretty bad incident not all that long ago with private celebrity photos being leaked.
- TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
  Not Apple's fault: poor security on the celebs' accounts.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
plaguuuuuu 11y ago
Google is an advertising company With Windows 10, MS is now also an advertising company.

What's with apple and their super-privacy stance lately? First his letter, and now his interview. Not that I mind it, but I feel like they're expecting something bad to come out soon.

tdkl 11y ago

A business strategy perhaps ? Considering everyone else is in the surveillance-as-a-service monetization model.

PhasmaFelis 11y ago

Apple is essentially the only major US tech company that doesn't rely heavily on advertising income (and thus on online profiling to target ads effectively), and they've realized that this gives them a moral high horse from which to attack their competitors without actually having to change any of their own habits.

iosys 11y ago
I wouldn't necessarily say, they have suddenly realized this; they have been leading by example for user experience for awhile and are now just being more public about it. Nobody that really understands the problem of no privacy between government or another collecting agency knows enough to weight it on purchasing their device or going with their OS for their phone, tablet, or laptop. If more people knew, how it could be for collecting every single thing from a user, i'm sure apple products would sell more, so I do agree with your point, that it is better to now advertise this.
Cookingboy 11y ago
Neither Amazon nor Microsoft rely heavily on advertising income. Neither does IBM, HP, Oracle, Cisco, Salesforce, etc. In fact when it comes to "major US tech companies", either by revenue or by market cap, I can only think of Facebook and Google that make money mainly from advertising income.
- derefr 11y ago
  Everybody you listed, excepting Amazon, make the majority of their revenue from the enterprise, not the consumer. B2B companies don't need to use privacy as a differentiator, and would gain no advantage by doing so; enterprises want "managed" software that enables them to spy on their employees. Amazon, the consumer-focused exception, makes their money on physical products not produced by them, and on cloud services—both of which are mostly privacy-neutral as far as third parties go. Amazon knows what you tell Amazon (your shopping history; your AWS API calls) but their business model doesn't involve giving that information to anybody else. They could theoretically take a stance on privacy, but they aren't doing much to enable privacy; just coincidentally avoiding doing anything that negates it.
- PhasmaFelis 11y ago
  "Consumer-focused major US tech companies," then. Hell, the logic still applies even if it's only directed at Google, who Apple seems to consider its arch-nemesis. (And while they may not be specifically selling ads, Amazon's business model is absolutely heavily invested in invasive ad tracking, which was my point. Witness how Amazon products that you look at but don't immediately buy follow you around the Web for fucking weeks.)
ariwilson 11y ago
Apple has also failed in their own advertising efforts (iAd) and additionally failed to catch up in the software service business (almost all of the mass market services are monetized via advertising). Their privacy stance is the only move left to them.
- interpol_p 11y ago
  I always saw iAd not as a money-maker, but as Apple's thoughts on what advertising should be. That is, it was their way to try to make ads less tacky for their devices — especially noticeable in the initial million-dollar ad sales to high profile brands. The messaging was all about how slick and polished and pretty they were, and how expensive. Unfortunately Apple failed to realise banner ads are tacky no matter how much polish you throw at them.
pdkl95 11y ago
This popular talking point conveniently ignores that ads not the only way companies can benefit form spying. The HN crowd absolutely loves using "analytics" to try and divine ways to make their products more profitable. Microsoft even uses this as an excuse for Win10's "telemetry" spyware: they say it's to improve the product. Yet when Apple spies on its users, suddenly it's ok because Apple isn't an ad company. Apple is using this topic to attack their customers, but they are not exactly on moral high ground.
- PhasmaFelis 11y ago
  Tracking crashes, interface pain points, etc. is, in itself, a perfectly legit thing for a developer to do. There's been all kinds of software, open-source and otherwise, that asks for permission to phone home with usage logs for roughly as long as there's been broad internet adoption. Win10 telemetry is hated mainly because they're so dishonest about it: you're encouraged to use default settings on installation, they're very secretive about what info is actually gathered and about what the settings do, and they straight-up lie about some of the things you can supposedly disable.

fletchowns 11y ago

> But what they don't want to do, they don't want your email to be read, and then to pick up on keywords in your email and then to use that information to then market you things on a different application that you're using. ... Sounds like they are taking jabs at one of their biggest competitors, Google.

IkmoIkmo 11y ago

They have no business model based on consumer information. Guess who does? One of their big competitors, Google, whose revenues are 90% made up of advertising, thrives on this data. Further, privacy is obviously a hot topic, well at least in tech discourse. None of my friends are really bothered by any privacy concerns and couldn't care less if Google mines their email to provide targeted ads, honestly... But to the extent that privacy is meaningful to people, safeguarding it is obviously a benefit and thereby something one can sell, and seeing as there've been so many different scandals people probably are at least somewhat sensitive to privacy-centric marketing. In short, they're selling a consumer benefit while taking a jab at the competition. Not a bad deal, there are barely any cons. Apple never really got into the advertising game, doesn't need to and unlikely plans to. They've had some ad products and neglected it for a long time, probably in large part because ads are a shitty consumer experience and Apple tries to offer the best experience even if that requires higher consumer prices. And finally it's completely in line with Apple's business models on content in the past, creating walled gardens to push paid content (music, books, news, apps), advertising doesn't really fit into that context. Consider also that it's obviously in line with Apple being the 'nice guys', who recycle materials, appreciate diversity, the artists who just want to be free blabla. Businesses or governments tracking users doesn't fit that narrative and protecting users from these parties does. And finally, I do believe they genuinely care without any ulterior motive and are willing to push for the things they care about if it doesn't hurt them (much).

knice 11y ago

I think they see this as a key differentiator between iOS/iCloud and Google services and they want the public to know about it. In a post-Snowden world, it's worth noting the difference between platforms that prioritize user privacy and platforms that share user data with advertisers in return for additional services.

hannibalhorn 11y ago

They did have a pretty bad incident not all that long ago with private celebrity photos being leaked.

TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
Not Apple's fault: poor security on the celebs' accounts.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

plaguuuuuu 11y ago

Google is an advertising company With Windows 10, MS is now also an advertising company.