5 ms·

I don't see how we could have implemented the same in FogBugz. How would you implement the compliance without technology in place? I'm being serious, how do yo

by omouse 11y ago

I don't see how we could have implemented the same in FogBugz. How would you implement the compliance without technology in place? I'm being serious, how do you think compliance happened in the days of 486s, TRS-80s, punchcards or no computers at all? There isn't always a technical solution to a social problem, and JIRA's customizations are a micromanagers dreams. I'm sure there are good cases where that level of control is needed (your compliance case) but generally you don't need it.

smackfu 11y ago
Reminds me of the time we cleaned out a back storage room at an old job, and there were binders full of mainframe PL/I source code from the early 80's that had gone through paper code reviews, with the reviewers signature on every page.
- caf 11y ago
  I was at a job where we did that in the early 2000s.
solutionyogi 11y ago
I am not suggesting that you don't need technology. I am suggesting that FogBugz doesn't offer enough flexibility in their workflow definition to do the gymnastics required for SOC1 compliance. FogBugz is trying to follow best software development practices and as you noted, Jira is a dream-tool for a micro-manager.
simcop2387 11y ago
While I don't have any real data, for a good look at how it was done before things like Jira and FogBugz, I'd first look at IBM and the military. IBM used to do a lot of consulting for both documentation and process compliance though I don't know much of the details (mostly heard stories from my uncle who works for them). The military did it largely with strict discipline and documenting everything in triplicate if the media is any indication and even then they likely weren't perfect. The technology layers enable a strict uncaring rule keeper to do the job at all times and enforce things even if they might not apply, it makes the task simpler but it's still some of the same idea, a single bottleneck exists to ensure compliance for something and it gets well documented.
DavidPlumpton 11y ago
They used to say the Space Shuttle isn't ready to fly unless the weight of the paperwork is equal to the weight of the shuttle.
- dodders 11y ago
  My first job was writing JCL decks on an IBM ESA/390. We had several shelves of manuals for the thing. And people read them.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

by omouse 11y ago

smackfu 11y ago

Reminds me of the time we cleaned out a back storage room at an old job, and there were binders full of mainframe PL/I source code from the early 80's that had gone through paper code reviews, with the reviewers signature on every page.

caf 11y ago
I was at a job where we did that in the early 2000s.

solutionyogi 11y ago

I am not suggesting that you don't need technology. I am suggesting that FogBugz doesn't offer enough flexibility in their workflow definition to do the gymnastics required for SOC1 compliance. FogBugz is trying to follow best software development practices and as you noted, Jira is a dream-tool for a micro-manager.

simcop2387 11y ago

While I don't have any real data, for a good look at how it was done before things like Jira and FogBugz, I'd first look at IBM and the military. IBM used to do a lot of consulting for both documentation and process compliance though I don't know much of the details (mostly heard stories from my uncle who works for them). The military did it largely with strict discipline and documenting everything in triplicate if the media is any indication and even then they likely weren't perfect. The technology layers enable a strict uncaring rule keeper to do the job at all times and enforce things even if they might not apply, it makes the task simpler but it's still some of the same idea, a single bottleneck exists to ensure compliance for something and it gets well documented.

DavidPlumpton 11y ago

They used to say the Space Shuttle isn't ready to fly unless the weight of the paperwork is equal to the weight of the shuttle.

dodders 11y ago
My first job was writing JCL decks on an IBM ESA/390. We had several shelves of manuals for the thing. And people read them.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]