3 ms·

As a counterexample, take Nethack. Probably largely reserved for more of the hard-core gamer type, but I don't consider myself to be a hard-core gamer any more

As a counterexample, take Nethack. Probably largely reserved for more of the hard-core gamer type, but I don't consider myself to be a hard-core gamer any more. In fact, difficult games that force me to repeat a failure over and over I will push to the side due to lack of time. Nethack, however, has continued to fascinate me over the years. Its randomly generated content and creative ways of killing you (usually) keep you from dying repeatedly in the same exact circumstances, and you come out of it feeling that you learned something and are developing a worthwhile skill in terms of the game. Dying in Nethack is practically positive reinforcement rather than pointless repetition.

blasdel 17y ago
And despite the pervasive RNG skewing every outcome, death is always the player's fault, and the player knows it.
- gridspy 17y ago
  The number of times I put an unidentified amulet on in that game...
- swolchok 17y ago
  Sometimes it's bad luck. "You fall into a pit! The spikes were poisoned! The poison was deadly! You die..." before you could get poison resistance, for example. The classic example is the early-game gnome that gets generated with wand of death, which you have no defense against at that stage.
  - blasdel 17y ago
    Over the course of many hundreds of deaths, I've had that happen to me maybe a couple times, like a falling rock trap on turn 5. Occasionally epic shit like this happens: http://alt.org/nethack/player-all.php?player=Ascension http://alt.org/nethack/player-all.php?player=Ascension -- but more common is early unavoidable pet deaths. But as you pass the first few hundred turns, the probability that your death is going to be entirely the fault of something you decided to do in the last few turns rapidly approaches one. You can acquire resistances and detection mechanisms quite early, plus your pet is so very useful in that period too. Once you know what you're doing, every decision is an explicit trade, especially in hindsight.

blasdel 17y ago

And despite the pervasive RNG skewing every outcome, death is always the player's fault, and the player knows it.

gridspy 17y ago
The number of times I put an unidentified amulet on in that game...
swolchok 17y ago
Sometimes it's bad luck. "You fall into a pit! The spikes were poisoned! The poison was deadly! You die..." before you could get poison resistance, for example. The classic example is the early-game gnome that gets generated with wand of death, which you have no defense against at that stage.
- blasdel 17y ago
  Over the course of many hundreds of deaths, I've had that happen to me maybe a couple times, like a falling rock trap on turn 5. Occasionally epic shit like this happens: http://alt.org/nethack/player-all.php?player=Ascension http://alt.org/nethack/player-all.php?player=Ascension -- but more common is early unavoidable pet deaths. But as you pass the first few hundred turns, the probability that your death is going to be entirely the fault of something you decided to do in the last few turns rapidly approaches one. You can acquire resistances and detection mechanisms quite early, plus your pet is so very useful in that period too. Once you know what you're doing, every decision is an explicit trade, especially in hindsight.