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I'm not sure what your college experience (if any--I don't want to presume one way or another) was like, but I've had a chance to see it both from the science/i

by Frondo 11y ago

I'm not sure what your college experience (if any--I don't want to presume one way or another) was like, but I've had a chance to see it both from the science/industry perspective, i.e. the CS/engineering subjects, and from a language/art/music perspective (I myself have accumulated most of a couple of different degrees, in wildly divergent subjects, but not yet a whole one). Seldom have I ever had the conversation with anyone about, "what kind of job will we get after ___?" For me, it isn't so relevant because my tech background lets me make money pretty easily. For others, it seems like the focus is almost always almost exclusively on finishing the schoolwork. The schools themselves certainly never bring up the subject of any kind of career planning or job readiness, because that isn't really the role of the university--these aren't trade schools, after all. Maybe they should, but if everyone's making the same mistake, then I find it hard to say "everyone is dumb/wrong," with an implication that they should all just suck it up and deal with having made some mistake. I think it makes more sense to look for social causes for why everyone's making the same mistake, and find a larger-scale solution than individual suffering of consequences. As for this: "Not me. I've said otherwise for 40 years." I'm quite certain you weren't a part of the adult/authority figure group my peers and I had access to in the K-12 period of our lives. I find it commendable that you have said otherwise, but your ideas were absolutely not well-represented among the adults present in my generation's upbringing. So, it's great that you've been saying so, but not all that helpful in advancing the discussion.

WalterBright 11y ago
> I find it commendable that you have said otherwise Please, google "starting salaries for majors". It's not any harder than that. The thing is, unless advice I give says what people want to hear, they don't want to hear it. The most unwanted advice I give is to stop blaming others for ones' own decisions. Take responsibility for them. It's actually quite empowering. When I went to college in the 70's, it was the custom for seniors to tape their job offer and rejection letters on their dorm door for all to see. You bet we talked about jobs after college. I specifically chose classes based on how valuable I thought they'd be to my future career choice, and so did plenty of others. For example, lots of students quite deliberately did double majors, such as: "AY for fun, and EE for money." This was decades before google. Everyone knew that there were no jobs in AY.
- Frondo 11y ago
  I'm not sure why you're taking such a sanctimonious approach here. I'm also not sure why you keep repeating this advice, as though I or anyone on this board need to hear it. My point, which I'll try to make again, is that, among my peer group and in my generation, the universally prevalent idea was, "get a degree in anything, you'll get a job," full stop. (Please, don't take this as a sign that I need you to tell me to "google starting salaries for majors" again!). When you're a 16 year old without much technical aptitude--not me, but certainly my friends--that sounds like a good proposition! The schools won't do anything to disabuse the incoming students of that, either. Why would they? Every department wants a steady influx of students, so none of them are going to say, "nope, no jobs here!" I think you probably grew up in quite a different era, which is why I keep getting a sense of "kids these days" in your messages. I do kind of wonder what it would take to get you to empathize with people who grew up in a different time, under different circumstances, people who are part of a substantial cohort, who all acted in good faith on bad life advice and are all paying a substantial price for it. If, in response, you're going to say "just google it!" or "personal responsibility!" then please, let's save us all the typing and let it go.

by Frondo 11y ago

WalterBright 11y ago

> I find it commendable that you have said otherwise Please, google "starting salaries for majors". It's not any harder than that. The thing is, unless advice I give says what people want to hear, they don't want to hear it. The most unwanted advice I give is to stop blaming others for ones' own decisions. Take responsibility for them. It's actually quite empowering. When I went to college in the 70's, it was the custom for seniors to tape their job offer and rejection letters on their dorm door for all to see. You bet we talked about jobs after college. I specifically chose classes based on how valuable I thought they'd be to my future career choice, and so did plenty of others. For example, lots of students quite deliberately did double majors, such as: "AY for fun, and EE for money." This was decades before google. Everyone knew that there were no jobs in AY.

Frondo 11y ago
I'm not sure why you're taking such a sanctimonious approach here. I'm also not sure why you keep repeating this advice, as though I or anyone on this board need to hear it. My point, which I'll try to make again, is that, among my peer group and in my generation, the universally prevalent idea was, "get a degree in anything, you'll get a job," full stop. (Please, don't take this as a sign that I need you to tell me to "google starting salaries for majors" again!). When you're a 16 year old without much technical aptitude--not me, but certainly my friends--that sounds like a good proposition! The schools won't do anything to disabuse the incoming students of that, either. Why would they? Every department wants a steady influx of students, so none of them are going to say, "nope, no jobs here!" I think you probably grew up in quite a different era, which is why I keep getting a sense of "kids these days" in your messages. I do kind of wonder what it would take to get you to empathize with people who grew up in a different time, under different circumstances, people who are part of a substantial cohort, who all acted in good faith on bad life advice and are all paying a substantial price for it. If, in response, you're going to say "just google it!" or "personal responsibility!" then please, let's save us all the typing and let it go.