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Everybody is running with your Seattle humor but your comment on IPO'ing is worth discussing. 1) The reason a startup is appealing is because you're supposed to

Everybody is running with your Seattle humor but your comment on IPO'ing is worth discussing. 1) The reason a startup is appealing is because you're supposed to make a great low 6 or even 7 figure sum once your company goes public. 2) To achieve success you're supposed to work intensely hard and smart (@pmarca) for a short period of time (3 - 7 years) and then if you've picked successfully you'll create a really nice nest egg for yourself while you're peers who graduated will only be up to around $50K in their contributing 401K's. 3) Based on the size of that exit you are free to go somewhere else and enjoy luxury or double down in the Bay Area but this time with a little more money to get a better apartment or even buy something in the burbs. So the point is looking at just Income isn't helpful. One would hope your stock is appreciating in value at an equivalent or greater pace than your income.

aaronbrethorst 11y ago
> One would hope your stock is appreciating in value at an equivalent or greater pace than your income One would, but given the stock performance of GRPN or ZNGA, or more recently HDP and BOX, I'd be leery of this. Betting that you happen to pick the unicorn that's gonna IPO is a tall order. Betting that you happen to pick the IPO'ing unicorn that isn't going to fall apart post-IPO seems like too much to ask for.
deleted 11y ago
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nulltype 11y ago
One would hope.
dragonwriter 11y ago
> One would hope your stock is appreciating in value at an equivalent or greater pace than your income. OTOH, hope is not the same thing as reality. Some startups will exit successfully and yield really big payouts. Some startups will have modest exists, and equity will have some additional value, but nothing to write home about. And some startups will fail. If you are a capital investor in lots of startups, the small share where the first occurs have a good chance of being enough to make the average return good. But if you are a 20-something that's putting 3-7 years of labor into each swing at the startup piñata...
- nvader 11y ago
  I love the mental image evoked by a startup piñata because it is so deep with symbolism: blindly swinging away at a brightly-painted papier mâché dream, hoping for the outpouring of sweets by sheer random luck. Hopefully people are putting a little more thought into their career choices than that, but piñatas are definitely fun, and you're surrounded by your friends shouting encouragement and direction at you all the while. So while I'm positive that life isn't as bleak as this image conveys, I'm still going to borrow it to use in the future!
vasilipupkin 11y ago
I think you should only work for an early stage startup in >= one of two cases a) you love the company and the mission b) you are a founder or a very early employee I am not sure the expected value is there from a pure financial point of view for late employees, compared to working for an established company
Redoubts 11y ago
>while you're peers who graduated will only be up to around $50K in their contributing 401K's I'm saving quite a bit with my $bigcorp job, and at the current rate, I'd be way over that in 3 to 7 years.
- philsnow 11y ago
  Contribution limit has been 17500 or 18000 last few years, it's only expected to go up, and lots of bigcorps have good 401k matching. Also, the 17.5k (plus possible match) that you put in 3-7 years ago has been compounding for 3-7 years. Sure, the stock market may have taken a tumble in the interim and you might say that that means you end up with less in your 401k, which is true, but broad market movements affect startups' prospects as well, so you are still likely to come out ahead with the safe bigcorp option.

aaronbrethorst 11y ago

> One would hope your stock is appreciating in value at an equivalent or greater pace than your income One would, but given the stock performance of GRPN or ZNGA, or more recently HDP and BOX, I'd be leery of this. Betting that you happen to pick the unicorn that's gonna IPO is a tall order. Betting that you happen to pick the IPO'ing unicorn that isn't going to fall apart post-IPO seems like too much to ask for.

deleted 11y ago

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nulltype 11y ago

One would hope.

dragonwriter 11y ago

> One would hope your stock is appreciating in value at an equivalent or greater pace than your income. OTOH, hope is not the same thing as reality. Some startups will exit successfully and yield really big payouts. Some startups will have modest exists, and equity will have some additional value, but nothing to write home about. And some startups will fail. If you are a capital investor in lots of startups, the small share where the first occurs have a good chance of being enough to make the average return good. But if you are a 20-something that's putting 3-7 years of labor into each swing at the startup piñata...

nvader 11y ago
I love the mental image evoked by a startup piñata because it is so deep with symbolism: blindly swinging away at a brightly-painted papier mâché dream, hoping for the outpouring of sweets by sheer random luck. Hopefully people are putting a little more thought into their career choices than that, but piñatas are definitely fun, and you're surrounded by your friends shouting encouragement and direction at you all the while. So while I'm positive that life isn't as bleak as this image conveys, I'm still going to borrow it to use in the future!

vasilipupkin 11y ago

I think you should only work for an early stage startup in >= one of two cases a) you love the company and the mission b) you are a founder or a very early employee I am not sure the expected value is there from a pure financial point of view for late employees, compared to working for an established company

Redoubts 11y ago

>while you're peers who graduated will only be up to around $50K in their contributing 401K's I'm saving quite a bit with my $bigcorp job, and at the current rate, I'd be way over that in 3 to 7 years.

philsnow 11y ago
Contribution limit has been 17500 or 18000 last few years, it's only expected to go up, and lots of bigcorps have good 401k matching. Also, the 17.5k (plus possible match) that you put in 3-7 years ago has been compounding for 3-7 years. Sure, the stock market may have taken a tumble in the interim and you might say that that means you end up with less in your 401k, which is true, but broad market movements affect startups' prospects as well, so you are still likely to come out ahead with the safe bigcorp option.