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This is one of those things that is a great idea until it isn't. When your employer goes belly up, in SF, you have to fight off job offers. That's not going to

This is one of those things that is a great idea until it isn't. When your employer goes belly up, in SF, you have to fight off job offers. That's not going to be the case elsewhere. It's also much harder on the employers: if you think finding one good job is hard, try hiring an entire team of decent employees at once. Ultimately, it's worth the extra cost of staying where the tech is, prefixing your city name ala 'Silicon xxx' not withstanding.

rco8786 11y ago
Anybody in tech in SF is constantly fighting off job offers, not just when their employers go belly up. At some point, costs will reach a tipping point where people will start to look elsewhere(I don't mean 1% of people and I don't mean the Easy Bay, but actual significant people moving away from the Bay Area).
- WalterSear 11y ago
  I've been here 20 years, and people have been saying that almost since I got here :)
  - rco8786 11y ago
    No doubt. I definitely didn't say, "we're at the tipping point"...but it exists...somewhere....
jkestner 11y ago
It's not like those other cities are tech wastelands. You'll be able to find a good job. Maybe it won't pay as much as a city where you're being fought over, but then, it doesn't need to.
- mooreds 11y ago
  I had multiple clients (I'm a developer and a contractor) who had job reqs open for months at a good pay scale and had a heck of a time finding people in the Boulder Denver area. I think that the tech frenzy is great enough that people are fighting over tech folks in other areas--maybe not as violently as in SF, but still fighting.
  - WalterSear 11y ago
    What is considered a 'good' pay scale outside the bay area?
    - wsterling 11y ago
      In Denver and Boudler I'm seeing SWE postings with salary 100K - 160K. Not really much different then SF and a lot cheaper housing. You are really much better off in Colorado then Norhter California. Don't tell anyone!
  - zyxley 11y ago
    Sounds like their "good" pay scale wasn't good enough.
    - mooreds 11y ago
      I guess that could have been it. I did some hiring a year or so ago and they pay scales were comparable. And the numbers I see are similar to what I've seen with other jobs (friends, email lists, etc). Each client did end up hiring, but it was a slog.
EC1 11y ago
So I should keep losing money for the possibility to find another job similar to my last one so I can keep losing money?
- WalterSear 11y ago
  If you are losing money, you aren't doing it right. Sure, maybe you would be better off somewhere where the competition isn't as hard, and the living costs aren't as high.
  - EC1 11y ago
    The whole context of this thread is insane rent prices, aka losing money.
    - baddox 11y ago
      Spending 50% of your income on rent isn't the same thing as losing money, unless you're defining "losing" to mean "spending." I doubt many of these SF tech workers started with some savings and are watching their savings decrease each month.
    - s73v3r 11y ago
      No, the context is insane rent prices. That doesn't translate to losing money. Several people have stated that the difference in salary is making up for it, to where they have as much after rent, after tax income or more than in other places.
vonmoltke 11y ago
> When your employer goes belly up, in SF, you have to fight off job offers. That's a chicken-and-egg problem. Companies choose to set up shop there so employees will feel more comfortable taking risks because of the demand for developers. However, the demand for developers exists because companies tend to set up shop there.
- WalterSear 11y ago
  So what? Framing it that way doesn't make it any easier to resolve.
joesmo 11y ago
"When your employer goes belly up, in SF, you have to fight off job offers. That's not going to be the case elsewhere." In my experience, this is not going to be the case in almost every major city and in some areas not near a major city. Places where I've found/been recruited for jobs easily: Seattle, Portland, Austin, Philadelphia, Central NJ, NYC, San Diego, Atlanta, Dallas, DC. And those are just the places I was looking into at the time. Sure, if you're looking for a very specialized niche, the bay area is a better choice, but for most engineers that just isn't the case.
ryandrake 11y ago
Keep in mind that the job market is not predictable. For the moment, getting a job seems to be a little less painful than it usually is, but I will bet you any amount of money you want that this situation won't last. Remember 2007/2008... nobody was "fighting off job offers" back then.
- WalterSear 11y ago
  I am certain it was much worse being a jobless techworker elsewhere at that time.

rco8786 11y ago

Anybody in tech in SF is constantly fighting off job offers, not just when their employers go belly up. At some point, costs will reach a tipping point where people will start to look elsewhere(I don't mean 1% of people and I don't mean the Easy Bay, but actual significant people moving away from the Bay Area).

WalterSear 11y ago
I've been here 20 years, and people have been saying that almost since I got here :)
- rco8786 11y ago
  No doubt. I definitely didn't say, "we're at the tipping point"...but it exists...somewhere....

jkestner 11y ago

It's not like those other cities are tech wastelands. You'll be able to find a good job. Maybe it won't pay as much as a city where you're being fought over, but then, it doesn't need to.

mooreds 11y ago
I had multiple clients (I'm a developer and a contractor) who had job reqs open for months at a good pay scale and had a heck of a time finding people in the Boulder Denver area. I think that the tech frenzy is great enough that people are fighting over tech folks in other areas--maybe not as violently as in SF, but still fighting.
- WalterSear 11y ago
  What is considered a 'good' pay scale outside the bay area?
  - wsterling 11y ago
    In Denver and Boudler I'm seeing SWE postings with salary 100K - 160K. Not really much different then SF and a lot cheaper housing. You are really much better off in Colorado then Norhter California. Don't tell anyone!
- zyxley 11y ago
  Sounds like their "good" pay scale wasn't good enough.
  - mooreds 11y ago
    I guess that could have been it. I did some hiring a year or so ago and they pay scales were comparable. And the numbers I see are similar to what I've seen with other jobs (friends, email lists, etc). Each client did end up hiring, but it was a slog.

EC1 11y ago

So I should keep losing money for the possibility to find another job similar to my last one so I can keep losing money?

WalterSear 11y ago
If you are losing money, you aren't doing it right. Sure, maybe you would be better off somewhere where the competition isn't as hard, and the living costs aren't as high.
- EC1 11y ago
  The whole context of this thread is insane rent prices, aka losing money.
  - baddox 11y ago
    Spending 50% of your income on rent isn't the same thing as losing money, unless you're defining "losing" to mean "spending." I doubt many of these SF tech workers started with some savings and are watching their savings decrease each month.
  - s73v3r 11y ago
    No, the context is insane rent prices. That doesn't translate to losing money. Several people have stated that the difference in salary is making up for it, to where they have as much after rent, after tax income or more than in other places.

vonmoltke 11y ago

> When your employer goes belly up, in SF, you have to fight off job offers. That's a chicken-and-egg problem. Companies choose to set up shop there so employees will feel more comfortable taking risks because of the demand for developers. However, the demand for developers exists because companies tend to set up shop there.

WalterSear 11y ago
So what? Framing it that way doesn't make it any easier to resolve.

joesmo 11y ago

"When your employer goes belly up, in SF, you have to fight off job offers. That's not going to be the case elsewhere." In my experience, this is not going to be the case in almost every major city and in some areas not near a major city. Places where I've found/been recruited for jobs easily: Seattle, Portland, Austin, Philadelphia, Central NJ, NYC, San Diego, Atlanta, Dallas, DC. And those are just the places I was looking into at the time. Sure, if you're looking for a very specialized niche, the bay area is a better choice, but for most engineers that just isn't the case.

ryandrake 11y ago

Keep in mind that the job market is not predictable. For the moment, getting a job seems to be a little less painful than it usually is, but I will bet you any amount of money you want that this situation won't last. Remember 2007/2008... nobody was "fighting off job offers" back then.

WalterSear 11y ago
I am certain it was much worse being a jobless techworker elsewhere at that time.