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The hypocrisy at the end of the article is astounding: "Right now, we’re not planning on it. [rebuilding their app]. Our APIs make it easy for anyone else to bu

The hypocrisy at the end of the article is astounding: "Right now, we’re not planning on it. [rebuilding their app]. Our APIs make it easy for anyone else to build one, though. (Our old app is open source if you’d like an example to build upon. Just respect our license and don’t put ads in it.)" They blatantly violated the agreement for obtaining the pre-release hardware, and then expect people to honor their own license terms? IMHO, they are extremely lucky the worst thing that happened was their developer account getting pulled. [Edited for clarity after feedback]

mikeash 11y ago
Wow, that's some pretty blatant hypocrisy. I didn't notice that bit. I don't know about the downvotes. I upvoted you to try to compensate. I think people are misunderstanding what happened here, maybe thinking that Apple is punishing them for disassembling retail hardware or something.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
draw_down 11y ago
Good point.
forgottenpass 11y ago
Why the downvotes? The vindictive attitude.
WaterSponge 11y ago
Fortunately they can continue buying released products and help the masses have an option for repairs.
ploxiln 11y ago
It would be hypocrisy if they re-created a copycat apple tv and sold it or distributed it with ads. They didn't do anything like that. Also, they likely violate EULAs (the A is for agreement) for non-pre-release hardware all the time. Not that big a difference.
- zeckalpha 11y ago
  Actually, under their license (GPL) you are allowed to sell it, as long as you include the source when selling it. Most prominent example: Linux CDs sold before the Internet was fast and ubiquitous. https://github.com/iFixit/iFixit-iOS/blob/master/LICENSE https://github.com/iFixit/iFixit-iOS/blob/master/LICENSE
- MrGando 11y ago
  Some devs that actually wanted those for good didn't get any because asses like these guys wanted them to get more page views (thus taking slots).
  - Buge 11y ago
    Many would say that iFixit also wanted the devices for good. They put out informative information about the devices.
    - NietTim 11y ago
      About pre-release hardware, which can change for consumer versions. Still a dick move IMO.
- TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
  Why isn't it hypocrisy to expect others to respect license agreements yet blatantly violate them themselves for publicity? Yes, the terms aren't the same, but, so?
  - ploxiln 11y ago
    I would compare the apple hardware agreement they violated to software agreements which forbid analysis, reverse engineering, or even benchmarking (there's some notable enterprisey software which forbids conducting benchmarks and sharing the results). I would not condone redistributing copies of software or significant portions thereof in a way which violates the license, whether it be a copyleft license or a commercial license. If apple distributed gerber files for the PCB of the new hardware device, or original CAD schematics it uses to manufacture parts, under some license, I'd also want the terms of the distribution of that to be respected. But this is something of a different nature. It's taking hardware apart and seeing what's inside and sharing that researched information rather freely on the internet. This is not a copy of source code or hardware schematic. This is learned information. It's not vandalism - there is no expectation that any dev kits be returned, each recipient can use theirs exclusively. This is something everyone everywhere should always have the right to do. And iFixit does, more or less. What sucks is that Apple can retaliate by exerting their complete and arbitrary control over what software millions of people are permitted to run on their own devices. That's really messed up. This is just one more great example, in case you don't understand yet.
tomstockmail 11y ago
I don't fully understand the hypocrisy here when they acknowledged their mistake (or at least in the article, moreso a risk they chose to take) and are living with the consequences.
- sjwright 11y ago
  I don't see any contrition on their part. They're trying to have it both ways – the tone of the article is clearly engineered to raise the heckles of people who are sympathetic to the "Apple is authoritarian" meme without explicitly saying so. "In the meantime, we will continue to support our Android app" they say. Not subtle at all.
  - oalders 11y ago
    s/heckles/hackles/ :)
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
blazespin 11y ago
Well, everyone breaks rules. It's like saying they're hypocritical because sometimes they don't obey parking laws but expect people to obey their licensing terms. I think the idea here is that being able to fix your own devices rather than put them in a landfill is a moral stance and such rules deserve to be broken.
- cjensen 11y ago
  The new AppleTV is not yet available for sale. The justification of "help people fix their devices" simply does not apply in this case.
  - morganvachon 11y ago
    Of course it does. I may or may not choose to buy X product because of how easy or difficult it is to take apart and repair myself (and that's not limited to iDevices, as iFixit covers many consumer products beyond Apple's lineup). iFixit is offering a valuable service to me, the consumer, with their preemptive teardowns.
    - urda 11y ago
      > Of course it does. I may or may not choose to buy X product because of how easy or difficult it is to take apart and repair myself Then Ifixit should have waited until it's available on the market then did the tear down. They consumed a valuable and limited resource that is known as the dev kit. A dev kit, which I may remind you, could have ended up in the hands of an actual developer and put to real use. Instead, they broke the rules and tore down a product that's not on the market yet. They got off easy, and anyone who attempts to argue that they are in the right simply have not done their homework regarding the matter.
    - cjensen 11y ago
      iFixit traditionally does teardown on the first day of availability. If you need to see a teardown before buying, you just have to wait 24 hours after availability. You'll need to do that anyway in case Apple changes something between dev unit and production unit. Sure iFixit provides a great service. I happily support them by buying tools and parts from them. "Public service" simply isn't a valid reason for this teardown. It was regrettably thoughtless of them to do this just because they can.
muddi900 11y ago
>IMHO, they are extremely lucky the worst thing that happened was their developer account getting pulled. What else can Apple do? Send the device teardown Police? They never acted like they did not violate the terms of the agreement, or that Apple did some injustice. I don't see the hypocrisy. Even if they were hypocritical, it is an overrated vice. Asking people to honour their agreement does not become wrong just because they are hypocrites.
bmelton 11y ago
> They blatantly violated the agreement for obtaining the pre-release hardware, and then expect people to honor their own license terms? I assume that most people were taught things like "Two wrongs don't make a right", or some other Aesopian adage at some point in their lives to similar effect. Just because they violated Apple's NDA/EULA terms does not entitle anyone else to violate theirs.
- 9935c101ab17a66 11y ago
  Violating NDA/EULA terms result in repercussions — one it sounds like they were almost certain they would incur. Don't make this some facile argument about how "two wrongs don't make a right." Also, your last statement makes absolutely no sense. "Just because they violated Apple's NDA/EULA terms does not entitle anyone else to violate theirs". Wut?

mikeash 11y ago

Wow, that's some pretty blatant hypocrisy. I didn't notice that bit. I don't know about the downvotes. I upvoted you to try to compensate. I think people are misunderstanding what happened here, maybe thinking that Apple is punishing them for disassembling retail hardware or something.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

draw_down 11y ago

Good point.

forgottenpass 11y ago

Why the downvotes? The vindictive attitude.

WaterSponge 11y ago

Fortunately they can continue buying released products and help the masses have an option for repairs.

ploxiln 11y ago

It would be hypocrisy if they re-created a copycat apple tv and sold it or distributed it with ads. They didn't do anything like that. Also, they likely violate EULAs (the A is for agreement) for non-pre-release hardware all the time. Not that big a difference.

zeckalpha 11y ago
Actually, under their license (GPL) you are allowed to sell it, as long as you include the source when selling it. Most prominent example: Linux CDs sold before the Internet was fast and ubiquitous. https://github.com/iFixit/iFixit-iOS/blob/master/LICENSE https://github.com/iFixit/iFixit-iOS/blob/master/LICENSE
MrGando 11y ago
Some devs that actually wanted those for good didn't get any because asses like these guys wanted them to get more page views (thus taking slots).
- Buge 11y ago
  Many would say that iFixit also wanted the devices for good. They put out informative information about the devices.
  - NietTim 11y ago
    About pre-release hardware, which can change for consumer versions. Still a dick move IMO.
TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
Why isn't it hypocrisy to expect others to respect license agreements yet blatantly violate them themselves for publicity? Yes, the terms aren't the same, but, so?
- ploxiln 11y ago
  I would compare the apple hardware agreement they violated to software agreements which forbid analysis, reverse engineering, or even benchmarking (there's some notable enterprisey software which forbids conducting benchmarks and sharing the results). I would not condone redistributing copies of software or significant portions thereof in a way which violates the license, whether it be a copyleft license or a commercial license. If apple distributed gerber files for the PCB of the new hardware device, or original CAD schematics it uses to manufacture parts, under some license, I'd also want the terms of the distribution of that to be respected. But this is something of a different nature. It's taking hardware apart and seeing what's inside and sharing that researched information rather freely on the internet. This is not a copy of source code or hardware schematic. This is learned information. It's not vandalism - there is no expectation that any dev kits be returned, each recipient can use theirs exclusively. This is something everyone everywhere should always have the right to do. And iFixit does, more or less. What sucks is that Apple can retaliate by exerting their complete and arbitrary control over what software millions of people are permitted to run on their own devices. That's really messed up. This is just one more great example, in case you don't understand yet.

tomstockmail 11y ago

I don't fully understand the hypocrisy here when they acknowledged their mistake (or at least in the article, moreso a risk they chose to take) and are living with the consequences.

sjwright 11y ago
I don't see any contrition on their part. They're trying to have it both ways – the tone of the article is clearly engineered to raise the heckles of people who are sympathetic to the "Apple is authoritarian" meme without explicitly saying so. "In the meantime, we will continue to support our Android app" they say. Not subtle at all.
- oalders 11y ago
  s/heckles/hackles/ :)

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

blazespin 11y ago

Well, everyone breaks rules. It's like saying they're hypocritical because sometimes they don't obey parking laws but expect people to obey their licensing terms. I think the idea here is that being able to fix your own devices rather than put them in a landfill is a moral stance and such rules deserve to be broken.

cjensen 11y ago
The new AppleTV is not yet available for sale. The justification of "help people fix their devices" simply does not apply in this case.
- morganvachon 11y ago
  Of course it does. I may or may not choose to buy X product because of how easy or difficult it is to take apart and repair myself (and that's not limited to iDevices, as iFixit covers many consumer products beyond Apple's lineup). iFixit is offering a valuable service to me, the consumer, with their preemptive teardowns.
  - urda 11y ago
    > Of course it does. I may or may not choose to buy X product because of how easy or difficult it is to take apart and repair myself Then Ifixit should have waited until it's available on the market then did the tear down. They consumed a valuable and limited resource that is known as the dev kit. A dev kit, which I may remind you, could have ended up in the hands of an actual developer and put to real use. Instead, they broke the rules and tore down a product that's not on the market yet. They got off easy, and anyone who attempts to argue that they are in the right simply have not done their homework regarding the matter.
  - cjensen 11y ago
    iFixit traditionally does teardown on the first day of availability. If you need to see a teardown before buying, you just have to wait 24 hours after availability. You'll need to do that anyway in case Apple changes something between dev unit and production unit. Sure iFixit provides a great service. I happily support them by buying tools and parts from them. "Public service" simply isn't a valid reason for this teardown. It was regrettably thoughtless of them to do this just because they can.

muddi900 11y ago

>IMHO, they are extremely lucky the worst thing that happened was their developer account getting pulled. What else can Apple do? Send the device teardown Police? They never acted like they did not violate the terms of the agreement, or that Apple did some injustice. I don't see the hypocrisy. Even if they were hypocritical, it is an overrated vice. Asking people to honour their agreement does not become wrong just because they are hypocrites.

bmelton 11y ago

> They blatantly violated the agreement for obtaining the pre-release hardware, and then expect people to honor their own license terms? I assume that most people were taught things like "Two wrongs don't make a right", or some other Aesopian adage at some point in their lives to similar effect. Just because they violated Apple's NDA/EULA terms does not entitle anyone else to violate theirs.

9935c101ab17a66 11y ago
Violating NDA/EULA terms result in repercussions — one it sounds like they were almost certain they would incur. Don't make this some facile argument about how "two wrongs don't make a right." Also, your last statement makes absolutely no sense. "Just because they violated Apple's NDA/EULA terms does not entitle anyone else to violate theirs". Wut?