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Mr. Snowden is going to have to wait for a change of government in the U.S. before he can return. The Obama Administration, as well as several senior Republica

Mr. Snowden is going to have to wait for a change of government in the U.S. before he can return. The Obama Administration, as well as several senior Republicans, have all called for his arrest and punishment. Hillary Clinton is hostile to Snowden as well. Her administration, were she to be elected, would doubtless continue to pursue his extradition. Trump wants him executed, and even Rand Paul wants him thrown in jail ("same jail cell with Clapper"). I'm very sympathetic to Edward Snowden's cause, and I hope that he stays away from countries that might extradite him until such time as he's granted a pardon.

toomuchtodo 11y ago
Yet another reason for me to vote for Bernie Sanders.
- _-__--- 11y ago
  Has Sen. Sanders explicitly stated a more welcoming attitude concerning the status of Mr. Snowden?
  - tptacek 11y ago
    He's more welcoming, but he too believes Snowden is a criminal; he wants lenient charging and sentencing for him (a "plea deal" of some sort, is how he put it).
    - toomuchtodo 11y ago
      I'd rather vote for a candidate who offers a slap on the wrist to appease mob justice then others who are spewing rhetoric about life in prison or execution.
      - tptacek 11y ago
        Sure. Me too.
    - radmuzom 11y ago
      By law, Snowden IS a criminal irrespective of whether his actions are moral or not (as I am not American, I don't take a stand on that and I don't care).
      - monstruoso 11y ago
        Presidents can pardon.
      - jugad 11y ago
        Only saying that "he broke the law, hence he is a criminal", is almost meaningless. Its like, the sun rises in the east. Everyone knows he broke the law, and its not part of the debate at all. The question is... knowing all that we now know, should we treat him like a criminal? Many people broke the law and became criminals, in order to do what was right. Gandhi became a criminal by refusing to pay tax on salt. Americans became criminals by refusing to play ball with 'taxation without representation'.. (or the boston tea party). Rosa parks became a criminal when she refused to sit in the back of the bus. In taliban's view, Malala became a criminal when she decided to go to school. Breaking the law is not always bad... sometimes, it is essential to break the law, in order to do the right thing. I find it difficult to believe that you really don't care, don't have an opinion or have no moral stand on this issue. It reminds me of this famous line... First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Socialist. Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Trade Unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me. Mass surveillance and punishing whistleblowers are not just American evils. They are the evils of the powerful, who are everywhere around the world.
  - functionalfish 11y ago
    "In my view," Sanders continued, "the interests of justice would be best served if our government granted him some form of clemency or a plea agreement that would spare him a long prison sentence or permanent exile from the country whose freedoms he cared enough about to risk his own freedom." http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/01/06/snowden-clemency-sanders-nsa/4344467/ http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/01/06/snowden...
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
  - toomuchtodo 11y ago
    http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/must-read/why-i-dont-care-about-edward-snowden http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/must-read/why-i-dont-... "Love him or hate him, we all owe Snowden our thanks for forcing upon the nation an important debate. But the debate shouldn't be about him. It should be about the gnawing questions his actions raised from the shadows. In the end, fear and politics likely will prevail, as it has in America's past. Washington elites will close ranks to protect the Surveillance State, to trample out transparency and to mislead the public. Maybe we can talk first?" EDIT: nicklaf mentions below that this was actually written by Ron Fournier, not Sen. Sanders, although I believe that if its considered "Must Read" by Sen. Sanders, its congruant with his position on the topic.
    - nicklaf 11y ago
      Just to be clear, that article was posted on the Senator's website as "must read" material, but was not written by Bernie Sanders himself. The article was written by Ron Fournier, and published in the National Journal.
      - toomuchtodo 11y ago
        Thank you for pointing that out. I've updated my post to reflect that.
  - dethstar 11y ago
    A quick googling revealed this: https://youtu.be/mJTmRoXG2DA?t=2m30s https://youtu.be/mJTmRoXG2DA?t=2m30s
  - igorgue 11y ago
    This post from 2013 can answer that: http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/must-read/why-i-dont-care-about-edward-snowden http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/must-read/why-i-dont-...
gojomo 11y ago
I wouldn't completely rule out a lame-duck deal in the final days of the Obama administration, after the election, in which Snowden agrees to some kind of trial/punishment, but is protected from the worst the espionage-statutes could throw at him. (Or, in the final lame-duck days of a future administration.) This could take the form of a pardon from some alleged offense, but not others.
natmaster 11y ago
"But I've sort of tongue-in-cheek said that if I had the choice, I'd put Clapper and Snowden in the same jail cell for about the same period of time. That's not a serious question, but I think it'd be an interesting debate they might have about liberty versus security." "Snowden has said he would have tried official channels to reveal this to someone officially, but that the whistleblower statute doesn't apply to contractors. So I [Rand Paul] actually have an amendment that would try to make that so. So if you're a contractor doing business with an intelligence agency and you find that they're breaking the law—and interestingly, the courts have now said the NSA is breaking the law. " - https://reason.com/reasontv/2015/06/04/rand-paul-on-edward-snowden https://reason.com/reasontv/2015/06/04/rand-paul-on-edward-s... - https://theintercept.com/2015/05/21/edward-snowden-cheers-rand-paul/ https://theintercept.com/2015/05/21/edward-snowden-cheers-ra... I don't think 'tongue-in-cheek' counts as policy.
jarsin 11y ago
Ron Paul was Snowden's best chance imo, but sadly that chance is now gone...
- igorgue 11y ago
  Maybe... Sadly? Not really, he dig his own hole, look into Jesse Benton and how he stole tons of cash from donors, also pretty much accepted bribes from Mitt Romney people, I'm so fed up with Ron Paul because of that. Ron Paul to me, looked more like an act than a serious politician after what happened during the last election.
  - jarsin 11y ago
    I understand what you are saying. He is not perfect by any means. I never liked the nepotism surrounding him. And yes running for president was probably a business decision for him. But if by some crazy miracle he got in, I don't doubt he would be way more constitutional than anyone else, but definitely not perfect.
davidgrenier 11y ago
Seems to me this rings clear that the government you've elected and any government you could get elected wouldn't represent the views of its electorate.
WaxProlix 11y ago
Even Rand Paul? Heavens!
- olalonde 11y ago
  To clarify, he said Snowden deserves a punishment proportional to his crime, which is about 5 years according to him. https://reason.com/reasontv/2015/06/04/rand-paul-on-edward-snowden https://reason.com/reasontv/2015/06/04/rand-paul-on-edward-s...
mindcrime 11y ago
Assuming Gary Johnson officially declares at some point, (which is widely expected to happen), he at least has shown some support for Snowden: https://reason.com/24-7/2013/06/12/gary-johnson-applauds-edward-snowdens-ac https://reason.com/24-7/2013/06/12/gary-johnson-applauds-edw... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2339200/Former-presidential-candidate-Gary-Johnson-applauds-NSA-leakers-actions-provided-didnt-reveal-state-secrets.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2339200/Former-presi...
swagv 11y ago
Too many entrenched interests. Snowden is only coming back to the US in a casket.
aagha 11y ago
The issue here is not the President--at least not directly. The issue is the Espionage act of 1917 [0]. The law explicitly takes all options off the table. At best, unless the law us amended, Snowden could be pardoned by the President after being found guilty. 0 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Espionage_Act_of_1917 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Espionage_Act_of_1917

toomuchtodo 11y ago

Yet another reason for me to vote for Bernie Sanders.

_-__--- 11y ago
Has Sen. Sanders explicitly stated a more welcoming attitude concerning the status of Mr. Snowden?
- tptacek 11y ago
  He's more welcoming, but he too believes Snowden is a criminal; he wants lenient charging and sentencing for him (a "plea deal" of some sort, is how he put it).
  - toomuchtodo 11y ago
    I'd rather vote for a candidate who offers a slap on the wrist to appease mob justice then others who are spewing rhetoric about life in prison or execution.
    - tptacek 11y ago
      Sure. Me too.
  - radmuzom 11y ago
    By law, Snowden IS a criminal irrespective of whether his actions are moral or not (as I am not American, I don't take a stand on that and I don't care).
    - monstruoso 11y ago
      Presidents can pardon.
    - jugad 11y ago
      Only saying that "he broke the law, hence he is a criminal", is almost meaningless. Its like, the sun rises in the east. Everyone knows he broke the law, and its not part of the debate at all. The question is... knowing all that we now know, should we treat him like a criminal? Many people broke the law and became criminals, in order to do what was right. Gandhi became a criminal by refusing to pay tax on salt. Americans became criminals by refusing to play ball with 'taxation without representation'.. (or the boston tea party). Rosa parks became a criminal when she refused to sit in the back of the bus. In taliban's view, Malala became a criminal when she decided to go to school. Breaking the law is not always bad... sometimes, it is essential to break the law, in order to do the right thing. I find it difficult to believe that you really don't care, don't have an opinion or have no moral stand on this issue. It reminds me of this famous line... First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Socialist. Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Trade Unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me. Mass surveillance and punishing whistleblowers are not just American evils. They are the evils of the powerful, who are everywhere around the world.
- functionalfish 11y ago
  "In my view," Sanders continued, "the interests of justice would be best served if our government granted him some form of clemency or a plea agreement that would spare him a long prison sentence or permanent exile from the country whose freedoms he cared enough about to risk his own freedom." http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/01/06/snowden-clemency-sanders-nsa/4344467/ http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/01/06/snowden...
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
- toomuchtodo 11y ago
  http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/must-read/why-i-dont-care-about-edward-snowden http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/must-read/why-i-dont-... "Love him or hate him, we all owe Snowden our thanks for forcing upon the nation an important debate. But the debate shouldn't be about him. It should be about the gnawing questions his actions raised from the shadows. In the end, fear and politics likely will prevail, as it has in America's past. Washington elites will close ranks to protect the Surveillance State, to trample out transparency and to mislead the public. Maybe we can talk first?" EDIT: nicklaf mentions below that this was actually written by Ron Fournier, not Sen. Sanders, although I believe that if its considered "Must Read" by Sen. Sanders, its congruant with his position on the topic.
  - nicklaf 11y ago
    Just to be clear, that article was posted on the Senator's website as "must read" material, but was not written by Bernie Sanders himself. The article was written by Ron Fournier, and published in the National Journal.
    - toomuchtodo 11y ago
      Thank you for pointing that out. I've updated my post to reflect that.
- dethstar 11y ago
  A quick googling revealed this: https://youtu.be/mJTmRoXG2DA?t=2m30s https://youtu.be/mJTmRoXG2DA?t=2m30s
- igorgue 11y ago
  This post from 2013 can answer that: http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/must-read/why-i-dont-care-about-edward-snowden http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/must-read/why-i-dont-...

gojomo 11y ago

I wouldn't completely rule out a lame-duck deal in the final days of the Obama administration, after the election, in which Snowden agrees to some kind of trial/punishment, but is protected from the worst the espionage-statutes could throw at him. (Or, in the final lame-duck days of a future administration.) This could take the form of a pardon from some alleged offense, but not others.

natmaster 11y ago

"But I've sort of tongue-in-cheek said that if I had the choice, I'd put Clapper and Snowden in the same jail cell for about the same period of time. That's not a serious question, but I think it'd be an interesting debate they might have about liberty versus security." "Snowden has said he would have tried official channels to reveal this to someone officially, but that the whistleblower statute doesn't apply to contractors. So I [Rand Paul] actually have an amendment that would try to make that so. So if you're a contractor doing business with an intelligence agency and you find that they're breaking the law—and interestingly, the courts have now said the NSA is breaking the law. " - https://reason.com/reasontv/2015/06/04/rand-paul-on-edward-snowden https://reason.com/reasontv/2015/06/04/rand-paul-on-edward-s... - https://theintercept.com/2015/05/21/edward-snowden-cheers-rand-paul/ https://theintercept.com/2015/05/21/edward-snowden-cheers-ra... I don't think 'tongue-in-cheek' counts as policy.

jarsin 11y ago

Ron Paul was Snowden's best chance imo, but sadly that chance is now gone...

igorgue 11y ago
Maybe... Sadly? Not really, he dig his own hole, look into Jesse Benton and how he stole tons of cash from donors, also pretty much accepted bribes from Mitt Romney people, I'm so fed up with Ron Paul because of that. Ron Paul to me, looked more like an act than a serious politician after what happened during the last election.
- jarsin 11y ago
  I understand what you are saying. He is not perfect by any means. I never liked the nepotism surrounding him. And yes running for president was probably a business decision for him. But if by some crazy miracle he got in, I don't doubt he would be way more constitutional than anyone else, but definitely not perfect.

davidgrenier 11y ago

Seems to me this rings clear that the government you've elected and any government you could get elected wouldn't represent the views of its electorate.

WaxProlix 11y ago

Even Rand Paul? Heavens!

olalonde 11y ago
To clarify, he said Snowden deserves a punishment proportional to his crime, which is about 5 years according to him. https://reason.com/reasontv/2015/06/04/rand-paul-on-edward-snowden https://reason.com/reasontv/2015/06/04/rand-paul-on-edward-s...

mindcrime 11y ago

Assuming Gary Johnson officially declares at some point, (which is widely expected to happen), he at least has shown some support for Snowden: https://reason.com/24-7/2013/06/12/gary-johnson-applauds-edward-snowdens-ac https://reason.com/24-7/2013/06/12/gary-johnson-applauds-edw... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2339200/Former-presidential-candidate-Gary-Johnson-applauds-NSA-leakers-actions-provided-didnt-reveal-state-secrets.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2339200/Former-presi...

swagv 11y ago

Too many entrenched interests. Snowden is only coming back to the US in a casket.

aagha 11y ago

The issue here is not the President--at least not directly. The issue is the Espionage act of 1917 [0]. The law explicitly takes all options off the table. At best, unless the law us amended, Snowden could be pardoned by the President after being found guilty. 0 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Espionage_Act_of_1917 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Espionage_Act_of_1917