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Edwardsnowden.com
- adrenalinerush6 11y agodefence
- adrianlmm 11y agoI suppose that just for the simple fact of visiting that webpage we will be permanently monitored by the NSA.
- 27182818284 11y agoYou know what's awful? I had the same thought—without joking. Like that's where we're at in life in the US. What a depressing state. What a bummer!
- slasaus 11y agoThis is what they call the global chilling effect. In this particular case this harms the knowledge people have about the Snowden case and why he currently is not returning to the USA.
- krapp 11y agoExcept the chilling effect in this case is being caused by people afraid of the NSA, not necessarily the NSA itself. Do you really believe your life and freedom are in greater danger from visiting edwardsnowden.com, but not from, say, hanging out on Hacker News? Or following Edward Snowden's twitter account along with a million other people and counting? Or visiting any site hosting any story related to Edward Snowden? Edward Snowden has done an interview with John Oliver, which presumably means everyone visiting any site hosting that interview is also on a permanent NSA watchlist. He was on the cover of Time Magazine, so all Time subscribers are also on a permanent NSA watchlist. Yet despite apparently almost everyone everywhere being under constant surveillance by the NSA at this point, there appears to be no global chilling effect, apart from that caused by people warning about a global chilling effect. Don't let your need for bias confirmation and your desire to play the victim-protagonist in a dystopian narrative cause you to act with more caution than necessary.
- arca_vorago 11y agoThat's not how the chilling effect works, actually it's against the actual definition of the chilling effect. Lets back up and use an analogy. Domestic abuse (aptly put I'd say). A man beats his wife, but only occasionally and when he has been drinking. He drinks in private though, so the wife has no way of knowing when he will become combative. The wife then begins to have a pervasive, long lasting fear over time that greatly affects the way she speaks and how she does things. You are basically saying that it's the wife who creates the fear, not the abuser, and not only that, but you are saying the wife isn't in any more danger from washing the dishes than she is from talking to the husband about drinking, which I think is obviously false. You then proceed to make some very strange logical leaps: " Edward Snowden has done an interview with John Oliver, which presumably means everyone visiting any site hosting that interview is also on a permanent NSA watchlist." No I don't think anyone has said that but you. An attempt at a straw man perhaps? "Yet despite apparently almost everyone everywhere being under constant surveillance by the NSA at this point, there appears to be no global chilling effect" You have provided no evidence to back up this claim, while there is plenty of evidence to support otherwise. For example, a recent high profile suit against the US by Noam Chomsky, Chris Hedges, Daniel Ellsberg, and others. "Don't let ... [this] cause you to act with more caution than necessary." I would agree with this, as FDR said, "the only thing we have to fear is fear itself". That doesn't remove the fact that the chilling effect is real, is growing, and still affects people though, so stop pretending otherwise.
- krapp 11y ago>No I don't think anyone has said that but you. The implication that I intended, is that if merely visiting that site is going to place you on a watchlist, other, similarly casual interactions with information about Edward Snowden would probably do the same. It's absurd to consider that a danger worth mentioning given the amount of coverage Snowden has gotten, and the information that's freely available everywhere about him and his disclosures. We're discussing this topic on a site where actual hackers and security professionals, US government employees and millionaire Silicon Valley tech entrepreneurs with legitimate political and financial influence hang out. Yet no one seems afraid to talk about Edward Snowden, government surveillance or whatever they like here. Surely, if the chilling effect were that pervasive, it would show up here? If visiting edwardsnowden.com puts you on a list, you're probably already on a list. >You have provided no evidence to back up this claim, while there is plenty of evidence to support otherwise Yes I have. Edward Snowden's presence in various forms of modern major media, to the point of doing an interview with a comedy show, is evidence that people aren't afraid of discussing him, and that the US media isn't afraid to cover him. He has a public twitter account which is being followed by a million people, which is evidence that people at large aren't afraid of that association, nor do they appear to be afraid of "consequences" from the government for doing so. >That doesn't remove the fact that the chilling effect is real, is growing, and still affects people though, so stop pretending otherwise. I'm not pretending. I honestly don't see the evidence of widespread fear about discussing Edward Snowden.
- joering2 11y agoI wholeheartedly agree with you and since coming to States in 2001 so many things changed that me and my family do not pursue US citizenship anymore (eventual benefits do not overweight all that comes in with "responsibilities" -- permanent residence 10 year card seem to be sufficient). Have you visit Europe lately? most EU countries lack police state. You won't get shoot for running cops over there - in fact, majority of cops don't have guns and somehow we don't get too many shooting on both sides either. Since most GMO is still banned, quality of food is like day and night. Spend week in Western Europe you will get your stomach fixed, no digestion problems, no sleep problems, clear mind, more energy, literally overnight. There is so many things right now broken with States and the rest of the world doesn't wait. Meanwhile European Union is doing many good things locally and people feel good changes (altho like any other country/entity it has its negative sides as well, of course) As of parent comment, we are not being monitored but recorded and there is big difference. As Obama said "nobody is listening to your phone conversations". Obviously it is impossible for any number of government employees to listen to 300MM people's daily conversations. It was about seizure/recording of said materials that's what is a Constitutional no-no.
- JoeAltmaier 11y agoNot sure how citizenship and stomach problems can possibly be related...
- Grue3 11y agoYou know what's awful? Living in a country where political opponents are murdered, not just spied upon. Or else they are prosecuted for crimes they couldn't have possibly committed. Where there are actual enforced Internet blacklists which can contain anything from political blogs to github.com. Who could possibly support this? Oh right, Snowden does. The fact that he lives in this country, in a penthouse apartment and buddy-buddy with Putin, while Russian whistleblowers like him (e.g. Navalny) are constantly persecuted, and people are actually praising this guy is what's actually depressing.
- Lawtonfogle 11y agoThis is basically a 'but those guys are even worse'. That has never worked when attempting to excuse our own behavior.
- Grue3 11y agoIt would be if I weren't talking about my own country. I'm saying 'our guys are worse than your guys and Snowden is actively aiding and abetting our guys'.
- happyscrappy 11y agoSome people have enough hatred of the US to accept Putin. They don't have enough hate to get their own government to stop dealing with the US though.
- mcherm 11y agoIf he had voluntarily chosen to remain in Russia you might have a point, but that is not what happened.
- Grue3 11y agoDo you think he ended up here purely by random chance? I find that laughable. He clearly intentionally seeked Russia for asylum, knowing that Putin won't give him to US. Do you think he's an idiot? He had to know perfectly well what the deal is. And nobody's keeping him here, I'd surely like him to go away and stop being Putin's PR boy. But he won't, and we all know the answer why.
- sbuttgereit 11y agoI expect his point was, you were already being monitored regardless of what website you might have visited.
- davidw 11y agoIf that were actually true rather than internet hyperbole, then the more people the visit it, the better.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- Fuxy 11y agoYou were probably already monitored for accessing websites like https://gnupg.org/ https://gnupg.org/ and other websites like it that show up on HN all the time. Not to mention as a programmer / sysadmin you are a prime target for exploitation of credentials if the NSA wants to access to company employing you.
- silverbax88 11y agoProgrammers and sysadmins are prime targets not only for the NSA but for non-US governments as well, and frankly, any organization that can benefit from infiltrating a corporate network.
- TrevorJ 11y agoYou mean more than we already are?
- slasaus 11y agoLast Friday it became public knowledge that every visitor of any domain will be tracked by GCHQ for at least 30 days and up to 6 months depending on the website/person. Indexed by "which websites a person visits" and "which people visit a certain website". https://theintercept.com/2015/09/25/gchq-radio-porn-spies-track-web-users-online-identities/ https://theintercept.com/2015/09/25/gchq-radio-porn-spies-tr... and the related discussion on HN https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10279853 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10279853
- seltzered 11y agoFor those wondering who runs this site / if it's endorsed at all by snowden himself (can't find anything stating such a thing outright yet) - from the bottom of the faq (https://edwardsnowden.com/frequently-asked-questions/ https://edwardsnowden.com/frequently-asked-questions/): ### Who runs this website? The site is commissioned by the trustees of Courage to provide information on the threats Edward Snowden faces, how he is being protected, and what you can do to support him. ### What is The Courage Foundation (formerly the Journalistic Source Protection Defence Fund) and who runs it? Courage is a trust, audited by accountants Derek Rothera & Company in the UK, for the purpose of providing legal defence and campaign aid to journalistic sources. It is overseen by an unrenumerated committee of trustees. Edward Snowden is its first recipient. The terms of the fund and its trustees can be obtained from Derek Rothera & Company.
- chc 11y agoSnowden's Twitter lists his site as freedom.press, so I would guess this is unofficial.
- adamnemecek 11y agoI'm surprised that he's using PayPal considering they froze the Wikileaks account back in 2010.
- TeMPOraL 11y agoAt some point the USGOV will subpoena them for the list and stage summary executions. s/.
- nickysielicki 11y agoLaura Poitras: "I asked to interview him on camera. His first response was no, he didn’t want the story to be about him." Now he's got twitter and edwardsnowden.com? Personally, I give him the benefit of the doubt in all cases. I think there was a lot more that he could have leaked and didn't, because he believes in the value of the NSA. I think he was careful to only leak things that dealt with mass surveillance of American citizens. I think he gave up a lot of comfort to try to inspire a society that he knew in the back of his mind probably wouldn't care. I think he loves his country. Most of all, I think he's probably further on the side of national security in the privacy vs security debate than people would probably think. But other people aren't like me. I really hope Snowden is able to bring the conversation in the right direction, because this debate about what our government should be doing is far from settled and there's a lot riding on his demeanor. There's a lot riding on whether average Joe sees Snowden as profiting from his whistleblowing or giving up his comfortable life. Snowden making funny tweets is extremely high risk.
- Fuxy 11y agoYes and at the time that was the correct response. The story is over everybody takes the things revealed then as fact. New he just needs to survive without getting assassinated.
- nickysielicki 11y agoOh please. Who stands to benefit and who stands to lose at this point from the assassination of Snowden?
- Karunamon 11y agoA little less snarky way of putting that might be to say that does not help the US's image. If he were to mysteriously die of a heart attack, everyone who thinks positively of Snowden is going to immediately blame the US for shenanigans.
- brighton36 11y agoI'm surprised he's using Bitcoin, since bitcoin is a ponzi.
- adamnemecek 11y agoIt's perfect for his situation. Also calling it a Ponzi scheme is a bit of a stretch. And by 'a bit' I mean 'a lot'.
- stevendhansen 11y agoLet's not lower the discussion down to the level of insults. Bitcoin has both virtues and flaws, but to say it is a ponzi scheme is factually incorrect.
- mycroft-holmes 11y agoI don't think you know what a ponzi scheme is.
- kordless 11y agoThe Bitcoin blockchain is the largest immutable data store ever built. If you want to question its trustworthiness, then do it with a logical argument instead of a biased opinion based on its current monetary value. Immutable data stores will soon be required by just about everything you use that is connected to the Internet, mostly for reasons that have nothing to do with value. Like it or not, we better get used to the idea of blockchains in our lives.
- SeanLuke 11y ago> The Bitcoin blockchain is the largest immutable data store ever built. Bigger than archive.org?
- msielski 11y ago> immutable
- davidgrenier 11y ago
- cryoshon 11y agoLooks like Snowden is stepping up his PR game. I think this is good. The disclosures have dropped off until recently, so we need to refocus on keeping the pressure on the government, and Snowden is a convenient figurehead for this purpose.
- happyscrappy 11y agoThis isn't Snowden.
- cryoshon 11y agoIt isn't Snowden, but surely it's done with his permission. If it wasn't, we'll hear about it quite soon.
- blisterpeanuts 11y agoMr. Snowden is going to have to wait for a change of government in the U.S. before he can return. The Obama Administration, as well as several senior Republicans, have all called for his arrest and punishment. Hillary Clinton is hostile to Snowden as well. Her administration, were she to be elected, would doubtless continue to pursue his extradition. Trump wants him executed, and even Rand Paul wants him thrown in jail ("same jail cell with Clapper"). I'm very sympathetic to Edward Snowden's cause, and I hope that he stays away from countries that might extradite him until such time as he's granted a pardon.
- toomuchtodo 11y agoYet another reason for me to vote for Bernie Sanders.
- _-__--- 11y agoHas Sen. Sanders explicitly stated a more welcoming attitude concerning the status of Mr. Snowden?
- tptacek 11y agoHe's more welcoming, but he too believes Snowden is a criminal; he wants lenient charging and sentencing for him (a "plea deal" of some sort, is how he put it).
- toomuchtodo 11y agoI'd rather vote for a candidate who offers a slap on the wrist to appease mob justice then others who are spewing rhetoric about life in prison or execution.
- tptacek 11y agoSure. Me too.
- 11y ago
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- cryoshon 11y agoSome pretty cool documents are linked here, especially https://edwardsnowden.com/2015/08/25/are-you-the-sigint-philosopher/ https://edwardsnowden.com/2015/08/25/are-you-the-sigint-phil... , which I have created another HN thread on. I'm not sure if those documents were previously disclosed or what, but the ones that I just mentioned relate to an internally targeted NSA propaganda campaign designed to keep their analysts complacent. It's pretty obvious if you read the documents.
- philbo 11y agoSee: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10041046 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10041046
- GizaDog 11y agoI find it interesting that the US government goes after a person that exposed inside government law breakers but they let Hillary run for president by lying to the public and government. Something is just not right!
- chrisduesing 11y agoIsn't donating money to someone wanted by the state a crime? He might be hiding out in Russia, but I'm not...
- wodenokoto 11y agoThe site is unclear about what they're asking donations for. To keep Snowden alive? Cost of a trial? If so, which? Towards a campaign lobbying for a pardoning of Snowden?
- jugad 11y agoCan there be a national referendum? A vote by everyone in the USA on whether the charges against Snowden should be dropped or not? Why or why is this not a good idea?
- MrBra 11y agohttps://search.edwardsnowden.com/ https://search.edwardsnowden.com/