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I actually have a friend who is in the latter stages of importing donated breast milk from Cambodia. At first, when he told me about it, I was a little bit disg

I actually have a friend who is in the latter stages of importing donated breast milk from Cambodia. At first, when he told me about it, I was a little bit disgusted, but the more I think about it the more I realize it could be a net win for everyone. He described it as: 1. Breast milk is, hands down, the best nutrition a baby can have. Babies in the NICU need it, there's a massive shortage, and we can't match its nutritional value with formula, period. 2. A woman will continue producing breast milk as long as she continues either feeding or pumping, even if her child is too old. 3. There's a desperate shortage in the US, because people don't want to take the time to come to the donation facility for the blood tests, and those are very expensive to do by mail. Basically, what he's doing is paying women in Cambodia for their breast milk. A woman in Cambodia will donate her milk for a few dollars a day, and it completely changes her lifestyle. Women are willing to come to their facilities to be tested, and are willing to go through background checks that make sure they're not neglecting their in doing so. They can then export the breast milk to places that have shortages (like the US), and make a profit. Domestically it's regulated by the FDA like a foodstuff (beans or corn), and it can be homogenized just like cow's milk. It takes a while to get over the weird factor, but it seems like economically it's a win-win. I'd be curious to see if anyone else would consider this exploitative. I've gone back and forth.

JoeAltmaier 11y ago
I'm not so much struck by the exploitative idea (every American thinks that anything they don't want to do, but somebody else is willing to do, is exploitation) but instead by the American attitude of buy-it-instead-of-making-it. Seems nothing is immune to commerce.
- quesera 11y ago
  Some women have extreme difficulty producing milk. It's a real problem. In my anecdotal observation, however, it's far more common to decide against it due to discomfort or inconvenience, often prompted by an initial difficulty getting started. We just aren't taught how to do it any more. We have formula for that.
  - JoeAltmaier 11y ago
    I'd guess its almost universally embarrassment. The rest is rationalization.
    - quesera 11y ago
      That's an interesting idea. Do you mean the embarrassment at "maternal failure to provide for child" or the embarrassment at "I have boobs and milk comes out"?
      - JoeAltmaier 11y ago
        The 2nd. Add to that, "My body will change shape alarmingly. Strangers will have (often radical) unwelcome opinions on my activity. I'll feel like a milk cow. I'm using a part of my anatomy that up to now has been exclusively related to sexuality, to feed a child." Emotional reactions are real and cannot be argued away - people feel the way they feel. It takes cultural change to make it ok; and there are probably too many changes that have to happen together to succeed at that.
    - austenallred 11y ago
      There are many, many women who physically can't produce breast milk (or at least enough of it).
      - JoeAltmaier 11y ago
        True; estimated variously but 15% seems to be typical.
      - quesera 11y ago
        Totally true. And there are also women to could produce adequate milk if they received proper support, but gave up early because they didn't want to do it in the first place. But some women are truly unable, and unfortunately they are often lumped in with the "I'll bounce back to my preprego body faster if I don't" group. And, it's worth noting, some of those women are pressured by obnoxio clown-men to do exactly that.
userbinator 11y ago
It takes a while to get over the weird factor I suppose it's weird for those who have never seen a cow being milked before, and I wouldn't be surprised if that was true for a large number of the (city-dwelling) population.
- pavel_lishin 11y ago
  I think it's more about the fact that it comes out of a human, rather than a cow.
- foldor 11y ago
  I don't think it's so much the fact that people haven't seen a cow being milked, so much as it's about the fact that drinking human milk is something we're not used to considering. It's always been a very personal and intimate thing between mother and child, so this seems unusual in comparison.
- JoeAltmaier 11y ago
  I imagine that the comparison of a mother breastfeeding, to a cow being milked, is probably part of the emotional problem. Not the solution.
Ntrails 11y ago
>Breast milk is, hands down, the best nutrition a baby can have. Babies in the NICU need it, there's a massive shortage, and we can't match its nutritional value with formula, period. Are there numbers on this? I've seen some debunking things recently on stuff like "Breast feeding = smarter babies", and I don't believe it can be nutrition that we're missing? I thought it was more to do with antibodies and the like? In which case are "non-local" antibodies the thing that is actually needed? I know sod all, just curious
- foldor 11y ago
  So, one thing that I've been reading is that breast milk helps transfer the good bacteria from mother to child. There's a lot of evidence pointing towards the fact that the bacteria in our bodies have more to do with the health of us than we ever realized before. Which is why fecal implants are such a successful procedure.
  - quesera 11y ago
    Which raises huge questions about pumped, pasteurized, and/or non-local human milk.
- pmahoney 11y ago
  There are a couple references here, 2008 being the most recent (PDF): http://www.brainrules.net/pdf/brain-rules-for-baby-references-smart-baby-soil.pdf http://www.brainrules.net/pdf/brain-rules-for-baby-reference... The author of the book "Brain Rules for Baby" is on the side that breastfeeding leads to smarter babies (~5 IQ points?), and claims that the principles in the book are backed up by peer-reviewed research. As for the mechanism behind it, not sure this is known. I've heard speculation that it is the antibodies, and that breastfed kids have a little extra learning time since they aren't distracted with as many illnesses. But I've also heard that receptors on the mother's breasts react to the babies saliva, resulting in milk nutrient profile slightly customized to the baby's current needs (so, would donated milk not have the same effect?).
  - abloodywar 11y ago
morgante 11y ago
> A woman in Cambodia will donate her milk for a few dollars a day How is it a "donation" when they're being paid for it? Farmers aren't "donating" the milk when we pay them for it.
- austenallred 11y ago
  The same way you get paid to "donate" plasma, I guess. Maybe "donate" isn't technically the right word for it.

JoeAltmaier 11y ago

I'm not so much struck by the exploitative idea (every American thinks that anything they don't want to do, but somebody else is willing to do, is exploitation) but instead by the American attitude of buy-it-instead-of-making-it. Seems nothing is immune to commerce.

quesera 11y ago
Some women have extreme difficulty producing milk. It's a real problem. In my anecdotal observation, however, it's far more common to decide against it due to discomfort or inconvenience, often prompted by an initial difficulty getting started. We just aren't taught how to do it any more. We have formula for that.
- JoeAltmaier 11y ago
  I'd guess its almost universally embarrassment. The rest is rationalization.
  - quesera 11y ago
    That's an interesting idea. Do you mean the embarrassment at "maternal failure to provide for child" or the embarrassment at "I have boobs and milk comes out"?
    - JoeAltmaier 11y ago
      The 2nd. Add to that, "My body will change shape alarmingly. Strangers will have (often radical) unwelcome opinions on my activity. I'll feel like a milk cow. I'm using a part of my anatomy that up to now has been exclusively related to sexuality, to feed a child." Emotional reactions are real and cannot be argued away - people feel the way they feel. It takes cultural change to make it ok; and there are probably too many changes that have to happen together to succeed at that.
  - austenallred 11y ago
    There are many, many women who physically can't produce breast milk (or at least enough of it).
    - JoeAltmaier 11y ago
      True; estimated variously but 15% seems to be typical.
    - quesera 11y ago
      Totally true. And there are also women to could produce adequate milk if they received proper support, but gave up early because they didn't want to do it in the first place. But some women are truly unable, and unfortunately they are often lumped in with the "I'll bounce back to my preprego body faster if I don't" group. And, it's worth noting, some of those women are pressured by obnoxio clown-men to do exactly that.

userbinator 11y ago

It takes a while to get over the weird factor I suppose it's weird for those who have never seen a cow being milked before, and I wouldn't be surprised if that was true for a large number of the (city-dwelling) population.

pavel_lishin 11y ago
I think it's more about the fact that it comes out of a human, rather than a cow.
foldor 11y ago
I don't think it's so much the fact that people haven't seen a cow being milked, so much as it's about the fact that drinking human milk is something we're not used to considering. It's always been a very personal and intimate thing between mother and child, so this seems unusual in comparison.
JoeAltmaier 11y ago
I imagine that the comparison of a mother breastfeeding, to a cow being milked, is probably part of the emotional problem. Not the solution.

Ntrails 11y ago

>Breast milk is, hands down, the best nutrition a baby can have. Babies in the NICU need it, there's a massive shortage, and we can't match its nutritional value with formula, period. Are there numbers on this? I've seen some debunking things recently on stuff like "Breast feeding = smarter babies", and I don't believe it can be nutrition that we're missing? I thought it was more to do with antibodies and the like? In which case are "non-local" antibodies the thing that is actually needed? I know sod all, just curious

foldor 11y ago
So, one thing that I've been reading is that breast milk helps transfer the good bacteria from mother to child. There's a lot of evidence pointing towards the fact that the bacteria in our bodies have more to do with the health of us than we ever realized before. Which is why fecal implants are such a successful procedure.
- quesera 11y ago
  Which raises huge questions about pumped, pasteurized, and/or non-local human milk.
pmahoney 11y ago
There are a couple references here, 2008 being the most recent (PDF): http://www.brainrules.net/pdf/brain-rules-for-baby-references-smart-baby-soil.pdf http://www.brainrules.net/pdf/brain-rules-for-baby-reference... The author of the book "Brain Rules for Baby" is on the side that breastfeeding leads to smarter babies (~5 IQ points?), and claims that the principles in the book are backed up by peer-reviewed research. As for the mechanism behind it, not sure this is known. I've heard speculation that it is the antibodies, and that breastfed kids have a little extra learning time since they aren't distracted with as many illnesses. But I've also heard that receptors on the mother's breasts react to the babies saliva, resulting in milk nutrient profile slightly customized to the baby's current needs (so, would donated milk not have the same effect?).
- abloodywar 11y ago

morgante 11y ago

> A woman in Cambodia will donate her milk for a few dollars a day How is it a "donation" when they're being paid for it? Farmers aren't "donating" the milk when we pay them for it.

austenallred 11y ago
The same way you get paid to "donate" plasma, I guess. Maybe "donate" isn't technically the right word for it.