4 ms·

It's scary to look at an area of the city where friends and family live and see just how many people died there. Frequently 10 or 20, the highest number is 168

by leoedin 11y ago

It's scary to look at an area of the city where friends and family live and see just how many people died there. Frequently 10 or 20, the highest number is 168 when a V2 dropped on a Woolworths in New Cross. These things hit the ground at around 1800 mph. I guess when you get absolutely no warning there's no time to seek shelter.

pjc50 11y ago
This prompted me to look up UK total civilian casualties at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#Human_losses_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#Human_... , giving the surprisingly small figure of 67,200 (including commonwealth!). We didn't do so badly when you look at some of the other horrifying figures in that table. That figure of total civilian deaths is also smaller than the death toll of either of the two nuclear bomb attacks or the firebombing of Tokyo. The RAF firebombing of Dresden has unclear casualty figures but seems to be about 20,000. Edit: thinking about it, the difference between that low number and the others is really the debt owed to the "few" of Fighter Command and the ability to maintain air superiority over England and the Channel, preventing truly extensive bombing and an invasion.
- nik61 11y ago
  For truly 'extensive bombing' the Germans would have required heavy bombers, which they did not possess. The Luftwaffe had been largely conceived of as a support to ground troops with no strategic role or capability. Also they wasted their efforts on civilian centres such as London before they had achieved air superiority by destroying the RAF, which they came very close to doing in the late summer of 1940.
  - nickik 11y ago
    They never came close to getting air superiority, or pushing the RAF away from the South England Airfields. This is a persistent claim that has no support with experts of WW2, but somehow the story is just to good not to be retold by every tv movie and school book. Its a popularised myth with no truth. Neither is it true that Churchill deliberately attacked German cities to stop the Luftwaffe from attacking the RAF Airfields. Churchill speeches and dramatisation is not the same as actual history, no matter how often people repeat the same tale.
    - hga 11y ago
      Do you know of any detailed source on all that, ideally something like http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0813338697 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0813338697 ? The only thing I can add to this debate with my current knowledge is that the British foiled the start of a campaign against the Chain Home radars after the Luftwaffe's first Maximum Effort against one station. Devastation was wreaked, but one or more boffins who showed up to see what could be done observed that there was one functioning transmitter, and jury rigged an antenna for it. When the Luftwaffe did ECM reconnaissance they couldn't distinguish between it and a functioning station, and concluded that approach wasn't going to work. Can't remember my source for it, a quick check of the index indicates it wasn't R.V. Jones' superb Most Secret War.
      - nickik 11y ago
        Usually I would not recommend a podcast, however this podcast goes threw the Battle of Britan in extrem detail comparing gains and loses for every single day (!). http://worldwariipodcast.net/ http://worldwariipodcast.net/ If you want a book, this is a good start: http://www.amazon.com/Battle-Britain-Roy-Conyers-Nesbit/dp/0752456520/ http://www.amazon.com/Battle-Britain-Roy-Conyers-Nesbit/dp/0...
zorked 11y ago
Supposedly the general feeling was of relief when you heard a V2 rocket strike. Because you knew you were still alive.

by leoedin 11y ago

pjc50 11y ago

This prompted me to look up UK total civilian casualties at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#Human_losses_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#Human_... , giving the surprisingly small figure of 67,200 (including commonwealth!). We didn't do so badly when you look at some of the other horrifying figures in that table. That figure of total civilian deaths is also smaller than the death toll of either of the two nuclear bomb attacks or the firebombing of Tokyo. The RAF firebombing of Dresden has unclear casualty figures but seems to be about 20,000. Edit: thinking about it, the difference between that low number and the others is really the debt owed to the "few" of Fighter Command and the ability to maintain air superiority over England and the Channel, preventing truly extensive bombing and an invasion.

nik61 11y ago
For truly 'extensive bombing' the Germans would have required heavy bombers, which they did not possess. The Luftwaffe had been largely conceived of as a support to ground troops with no strategic role or capability. Also they wasted their efforts on civilian centres such as London before they had achieved air superiority by destroying the RAF, which they came very close to doing in the late summer of 1940.
- nickik 11y ago
  They never came close to getting air superiority, or pushing the RAF away from the South England Airfields. This is a persistent claim that has no support with experts of WW2, but somehow the story is just to good not to be retold by every tv movie and school book. Its a popularised myth with no truth. Neither is it true that Churchill deliberately attacked German cities to stop the Luftwaffe from attacking the RAF Airfields. Churchill speeches and dramatisation is not the same as actual history, no matter how often people repeat the same tale.
  - hga 11y ago
    Do you know of any detailed source on all that, ideally something like http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0813338697 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0813338697 ? The only thing I can add to this debate with my current knowledge is that the British foiled the start of a campaign against the Chain Home radars after the Luftwaffe's first Maximum Effort against one station. Devastation was wreaked, but one or more boffins who showed up to see what could be done observed that there was one functioning transmitter, and jury rigged an antenna for it. When the Luftwaffe did ECM reconnaissance they couldn't distinguish between it and a functioning station, and concluded that approach wasn't going to work. Can't remember my source for it, a quick check of the index indicates it wasn't R.V. Jones' superb Most Secret War.
    - nickik 11y ago
      Usually I would not recommend a podcast, however this podcast goes threw the Battle of Britan in extrem detail comparing gains and loses for every single day (!). http://worldwariipodcast.net/ http://worldwariipodcast.net/ If you want a book, this is a good start: http://www.amazon.com/Battle-Britain-Roy-Conyers-Nesbit/dp/0752456520/ http://www.amazon.com/Battle-Britain-Roy-Conyers-Nesbit/dp/0...

zorked 11y ago

Supposedly the general feeling was of relief when you heard a V2 rocket strike. Because you knew you were still alive.