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The author confuses a state of calm contentment with boredom. And despite the new-age rhetoric, she admits to trying to solve it - she asks us to think instead

by jasim 11y ago

The author confuses a state of calm contentment with boredom. And despite the new-age rhetoric, she admits to trying to solve it - she asks us to think instead of doing things, in the hopes that thinking would help us stumble into profundity. But thought can be worse than action - thinking quickly spirals into brooding. Pardon me for yet another misrepresentation of depression, but I confuse it with boredom, albeit in an existential sense. Zazen encourages us to meditate on our breath and to observe our thoughts so that they hopefully melt away. It asks us to think less, not more; to shut down our internal monologue which is the biggest agent of human misery. The trope of the mad genius is true - there are three great books that touches on this subject: Hesse's Steppenwolf, Colin Wilson's The Outsider, and the amazing Logicomix. Also a recent research surfaced on HN on neuroticism and the dangers of self-generated thoughts - http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1364661315001540 http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1364661315.... There is however a kind of thought that _is_ action. The state of flow when deep in deliberate thought, trying to solve hard problems (hard is relative to the person thinking it) is amazing. That kind of thought is very different from thoughts about the self, or doing drugs looking for profound realizations - there unfortunately isn't anything deeper about life that we'll be able to figure out by random introspection. Science is our best bet for that; not LSD, not meditation, not boredom.

maroonblazer 11y ago
>Zazen encourages us to meditate on our breath and to observe our thoughts so that they hopefully melt away. It asks us to think less, not more; to shut down our internal monologue which is the biggest agent of human misery. I know this wasn't the thrust of your comment but having spent a lot of time studying meditation it's important to note that meditation isn't about "thinking less". Rather it's about developing the ability to see thoughts for what they are (they're just thoughts) and being able to respond (as opposed to react) to them. I can no more turn off my internal monologue than I can control when my blood cells regenerate or my skin cells slough off.
- danielbln 11y ago
  I would make the point that mere observation of a thought can "disarm" it, preventing it from spiralling into a train of thought, as it were. Therefore I think it's fair to say that someone who rests in awareness is effectively thinking "less", (in contrast to the common misconception that the goal of meditation is to stop thinking, or to clear the mind altogether).
- doomtop 11y ago
  > it's important to note that meditation isn't about "thinking less". You are likely more educated and informed about meditation and its purposes, but for myself, I use meditation specifically for the purpose of "thinking less". At least, that's how I'd describe it. Thoughts still come, but I let them go almost immediately, which stymies the flow or deluge that would normally follow. I focus on ambient sound, or breathing, or whatever, nothing. I can't turn the internal monologue off, but during meditation it does seem to fade out and it definitely feels like I am "thinking less".
  - SpaceCadetJones 11y ago
    I was going to say the same. I recently started my meditation practice again and I noticed I'm not quite as easily able to get the waters in my mind to settle, but I remember when I did I could go many seconds (maybe even a minute) without having any thoughts un-related to my breath. It's really beautiful to feel it in such a calm state
  - wordbank 11y ago
    It's important to not describe meditation in terms of "thinking less" because then novices try to reject or block their thoughts and strain their minds. Better phrasing is something like "not following after arising thoughts".

by jasim 11y ago

maroonblazer 11y ago

>Zazen encourages us to meditate on our breath and to observe our thoughts so that they hopefully melt away. It asks us to think less, not more; to shut down our internal monologue which is the biggest agent of human misery. I know this wasn't the thrust of your comment but having spent a lot of time studying meditation it's important to note that meditation isn't about "thinking less". Rather it's about developing the ability to see thoughts for what they are (they're just thoughts) and being able to respond (as opposed to react) to them. I can no more turn off my internal monologue than I can control when my blood cells regenerate or my skin cells slough off.

danielbln 11y ago
I would make the point that mere observation of a thought can "disarm" it, preventing it from spiralling into a train of thought, as it were. Therefore I think it's fair to say that someone who rests in awareness is effectively thinking "less", (in contrast to the common misconception that the goal of meditation is to stop thinking, or to clear the mind altogether).
doomtop 11y ago
> it's important to note that meditation isn't about "thinking less". You are likely more educated and informed about meditation and its purposes, but for myself, I use meditation specifically for the purpose of "thinking less". At least, that's how I'd describe it. Thoughts still come, but I let them go almost immediately, which stymies the flow or deluge that would normally follow. I focus on ambient sound, or breathing, or whatever, nothing. I can't turn the internal monologue off, but during meditation it does seem to fade out and it definitely feels like I am "thinking less".
- SpaceCadetJones 11y ago
  I was going to say the same. I recently started my meditation practice again and I noticed I'm not quite as easily able to get the waters in my mind to settle, but I remember when I did I could go many seconds (maybe even a minute) without having any thoughts un-related to my breath. It's really beautiful to feel it in such a calm state
- wordbank 11y ago
  It's important to not describe meditation in terms of "thinking less" because then novices try to reject or block their thoughts and strain their minds. Better phrasing is something like "not following after arising thoughts".