5 ms·

Yeah you should try it when you're 70 years old, disabled, or it's 3am.

by czzarr 11y ago

jrock08 11y ago
Oh man, you are the first person to bring up the elderly and disabled. I bet we can't figure that out at all so we better not try. Or, municipalities continue to provide on demand transit using small vans to the elderly and disabled, since no one said there can't be exemptions to the car free rules.
- czzarr 11y ago
  Perfect so now you still need perfectly functioning roads and traffic infrastructure, but only use it at 1% capacity while the public transports are completely over-capacity.
  - lfam 11y ago
    Come on, can't you imagine that people would CHANGE their habits if their environment changed? We wouldn't make the same kind of choices about where to go, where to put businesses, how to move around, etc. And besides, it's not like Paris doesn't have a precedent of the state forcefully changing the physical landscape of the city, although it may not be too popular with some: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haussmann%27s_renovation_of_Paris https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haussmann%27s_renovation_of_Pa...
    - tomjen3 11y ago
      Incentives matter, but the effect is never what you want. Put more bicycle lanes up and people will buy mopeds (which polutes like crazy), or take jobs elsewhere, or something else crazy. A good example is probably Australia where they made helmets mandatory for adults on bicycles. So many more people choose to take their car that the number of saved lives were offset by the amount of exercise lost.
      - lfam 11y ago
        I know that there are unintended consequences of everything. You have to have the courage to reevaluate your choices, not just make a change once and then be done forever.
      - rfrey 11y ago
        A sizeable fraction of people who were biking regularly chose to switch to cars rather than wear a helmet? That's extraordinary, I'm not saying it didn't happen but it astonishes me.
        jrock08 11y ago
        Cycling in Australia dropped by about 2% between 2011 and 2013. [1] The biggest issue with helmet laws though is that they significantly neuter bike share programs because people don't want to cary a helmet or use a shared helmet. [1] page 26 http://www.cycle-helmets.com/cps-2013.pdf http://www.cycle-helmets.com/cps-2013.pdf
      - jrock08 11y ago
        So, helmet laws are actually a terrible example of "effects aren't what you want", at least, it's a terrible example if the implication is that we are getting an effect that we don't expect. Now, it's possible that the legislators didn't understand this, but cycling advocates were and are well aware that helmet laws cause reduced bicycle use. Here's an article with sources which claims to be from 2006, the website copyright notice is 2013, so at the very least, it's from right around when Australia implemented it's helmet law. http://bicycleaustin.info/laws/helmet-laws-bad.html http://bicycleaustin.info/laws/helmet-laws-bad.html
  - jrock08 11y ago
    If the only vehicles using the road are public transit vans, we can clearly reduce the size of roads and the infrastructure. The vastly reduced wear and tear on the roads would free up government money for investment in public transit.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - r00fus 11y ago
    Multi-modal transport is the goal. Car-free isn't the goal. It's a push to get people to consider alternatives where possible. The stable state in the future may simply be less roads (reclamation into parks/walk/cycling usage)
    - czzarr 11y ago
      Making one mode artificially suck is not the right way to go about it. City bikes (Velib) were an awesome initiative and I use them every day, not because I don't want to use a car, simply because it's the best mode for most of my movements. The goal should be to have a wide array of choices and let people choose the best mode for their needs and their means, not to choose for them.
amluto 11y ago
When you're sufficiently old, disabled, or sleepy, driving isn't such a good idea either.
- czzarr 11y ago
  They're not necessarily the one driving. Have you never driven for your old parent/grandparent ?
smonff 11y ago
It also works at 3am, lots of buses.

Yeah you should try it when you're 70 years old, disabled, or it's 3am.

by czzarr 11y ago

Yeah you should try it when you're 70 years old, disabled, or it's 3am.

Oh man, you are the first person to bring up the elderly and disabled. I bet we can't figure that out at all so we better not try. Or, municipalities continue to provide on demand transit using small vans to the elderly and disabled, since no one said there can't be exemptions to the car free rules.

czzarr 11y ago
Perfect so now you still need perfectly functioning roads and traffic infrastructure, but only use it at 1% capacity while the public transports are completely over-capacity.
- lfam 11y ago
  Come on, can't you imagine that people would CHANGE their habits if their environment changed? We wouldn't make the same kind of choices about where to go, where to put businesses, how to move around, etc. And besides, it's not like Paris doesn't have a precedent of the state forcefully changing the physical landscape of the city, although it may not be too popular with some: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haussmann%27s_renovation_of_Paris https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haussmann%27s_renovation_of_Pa...
  - tomjen3 11y ago
    Incentives matter, but the effect is never what you want. Put more bicycle lanes up and people will buy mopeds (which polutes like crazy), or take jobs elsewhere, or something else crazy. A good example is probably Australia where they made helmets mandatory for adults on bicycles. So many more people choose to take their car that the number of saved lives were offset by the amount of exercise lost.
    - lfam 11y ago
      I know that there are unintended consequences of everything. You have to have the courage to reevaluate your choices, not just make a change once and then be done forever.
    - rfrey 11y ago
      A sizeable fraction of people who were biking regularly chose to switch to cars rather than wear a helmet? That's extraordinary, I'm not saying it didn't happen but it astonishes me.
      - jrock08 11y ago
        Cycling in Australia dropped by about 2% between 2011 and 2013. [1] The biggest issue with helmet laws though is that they significantly neuter bike share programs because people don't want to cary a helmet or use a shared helmet. [1] page 26 http://www.cycle-helmets.com/cps-2013.pdf http://www.cycle-helmets.com/cps-2013.pdf
    - jrock08 11y ago
      So, helmet laws are actually a terrible example of "effects aren't what you want", at least, it's a terrible example if the implication is that we are getting an effect that we don't expect. Now, it's possible that the legislators didn't understand this, but cycling advocates were and are well aware that helmet laws cause reduced bicycle use. Here's an article with sources which claims to be from 2006, the website copyright notice is 2013, so at the very least, it's from right around when Australia implemented it's helmet law. http://bicycleaustin.info/laws/helmet-laws-bad.html http://bicycleaustin.info/laws/helmet-laws-bad.html
- jrock08 11y ago
  If the only vehicles using the road are public transit vans, we can clearly reduce the size of roads and the infrastructure. The vastly reduced wear and tear on the roads would free up government money for investment in public transit.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- r00fus 11y ago
  Multi-modal transport is the goal. Car-free isn't the goal. It's a push to get people to consider alternatives where possible. The stable state in the future may simply be less roads (reclamation into parks/walk/cycling usage)
  - czzarr 11y ago
    Making one mode artificially suck is not the right way to go about it. City bikes (Velib) were an awesome initiative and I use them every day, not because I don't want to use a car, simply because it's the best mode for most of my movements. The goal should be to have a wide array of choices and let people choose the best mode for their needs and their means, not to choose for them.

amluto 11y ago

When you're sufficiently old, disabled, or sleepy, driving isn't such a good idea either.

czzarr 11y ago
They're not necessarily the one driving. Have you never driven for your old parent/grandparent ?

smonff 11y ago

It also works at 3am, lots of buses.