3 ms·

> Imagine a society free of aggressive and predatory crime. It's possible with the technology we have today. What are we waiting for? The concern is generally

by kbutler 11y ago

> Imagine a society free of aggressive and predatory crime. It's possible with the technology we have today. What are we waiting for? The concern is generally what else you give up in order to remove the crime. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dystopia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dystopia

TeMPOraL 11y ago
We've been trained by the works of fiction to immediately pattern-match high-tech crime prevention with dystopia, but I think it might be good to stop for a minute and consider if the belief isn't seriously biased. It's incredibly hard to make an utopia that's not immediately boring - to be enjoyable, narratives require conflict. Even Star Trek, arguably the last popular sci-fi with positive outlook on the future, just took the conflict out of the utopian Earth and moved it somewhere else. So the reason crime-solving technology leads to dystopia is not a feature of the tech, it's just because an utopia would be boring.
- kbutler 11y ago
  No, we've been trained by centuries of experience that the concentration of power invites abuse. Before we give the government the tools to monitor and control the populace, we need to make sure the populace has the tools to monitor and control the government. (I originally wrote "any organization", but any organization with such compulsory power becomes the de facto government...) A recent sci-fi with a positive view of hyper-tech civilization is "The Culture" (Iain Banks). However, the interesting stories there all occur on the borders, with the interaction of the Culture with non-Culture civilizations. "Player of Games" is a good starting point.
  - brador 11y ago
    > No, we've been trained by centuries of experience that the concentration of power invites abuse. And this is what tech can solve. We could be "ruled" by adaptive algorithms we collectively vote on. If a better algo is discovered it can be voted up and eventually replace another. Many refer to society as a machine, what would happen if we really treated it like one?
  - caskance 11y ago
    We've also been trained by millenia of experience that concentration of power invites efficiency and prosperity. Compare modern geopolitics to anything in the past. With a few rare but spectacular exceptions, groups merge and consolidate, and everyone is better off.

by kbutler 11y ago

TeMPOraL 11y ago

We've been trained by the works of fiction to immediately pattern-match high-tech crime prevention with dystopia, but I think it might be good to stop for a minute and consider if the belief isn't seriously biased. It's incredibly hard to make an utopia that's not immediately boring - to be enjoyable, narratives require conflict. Even Star Trek, arguably the last popular sci-fi with positive outlook on the future, just took the conflict out of the utopian Earth and moved it somewhere else. So the reason crime-solving technology leads to dystopia is not a feature of the tech, it's just because an utopia would be boring.

kbutler 11y ago
No, we've been trained by centuries of experience that the concentration of power invites abuse. Before we give the government the tools to monitor and control the populace, we need to make sure the populace has the tools to monitor and control the government. (I originally wrote "any organization", but any organization with such compulsory power becomes the de facto government...) A recent sci-fi with a positive view of hyper-tech civilization is "The Culture" (Iain Banks). However, the interesting stories there all occur on the borders, with the interaction of the Culture with non-Culture civilizations. "Player of Games" is a good starting point.
- brador 11y ago
  > No, we've been trained by centuries of experience that the concentration of power invites abuse. And this is what tech can solve. We could be "ruled" by adaptive algorithms we collectively vote on. If a better algo is discovered it can be voted up and eventually replace another. Many refer to society as a machine, what would happen if we really treated it like one?
- caskance 11y ago
  We've also been trained by millenia of experience that concentration of power invites efficiency and prosperity. Compare modern geopolitics to anything in the past. With a few rare but spectacular exceptions, groups merge and consolidate, and everyone is better off.