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Indeed, drag and drop SOAP/WSDL based on objects in your app never really gave you a great API, just like randomly creating opaque REST endpoints never gives yo

by thom 11y ago

Indeed, drag and drop SOAP/WSDL based on objects in your app never really gave you a great API, just like randomly creating opaque REST endpoints never gives you a great API. Most SOAP stacks are extremely well orchestrated, I'd be interested to hear the specific operational and debugging issues you had. Look, I'm not madly in love with SOAP and I don't intend to throw myself on a bonfire of downvotes in its defence, but all the problems described in the article have been solved for a long time, including the ones lamented at the end - headers and authentication. People are of course welcome to go to whatever lengths they like to have complete control of their stack, I'd just hate to think it was because either nobody in the room mentioned it, or that they wrote it off because it was enterprisey.

arethuza 11y ago
Indeed, I don't hate SOAP - it's a bit like Java - there is less wrong with the actual technology than you'd think and people can use it sanely. A culture problem more than a technology problem.
brightball 11y ago
Totally agree with you there. It's been kinda funny watching the popularity of JSON grow while the world around it constantly spends time reinventing everything around XML like schemas. The biggest difference between REST and WSDL services just boiled down to whether you were using a scripting language or a strongly typed language. Strongly typed languages greatly benefited the extra schema details that WSDL provided. Scripting languages didn't have to care so WSDL seemed bloated and unnecessary. It's only when you start running into all of the problems associated with SOA that WSDL/SOAP already had solved that you truly start to appreciate the original spec.
- aikah 11y ago
  > Scripting languages didn't have to care so WSDL seemed bloated and unnecessary This is an excellent point. And even a stronger point when one think about the popularity JSON. There is very little advantage with using JSON with Java for instance (architecture wise). XML,SOAP and co gets a lot of hate today. And it's funny how people are now reinventing the wheel with GraphQL and co ... when all that is needed has already been invented but for some religious reasons devs refuse to take advantage of it.

by thom 11y ago

arethuza 11y ago

Indeed, I don't hate SOAP - it's a bit like Java - there is less wrong with the actual technology than you'd think and people can use it sanely. A culture problem more than a technology problem.

brightball 11y ago

Totally agree with you there. It's been kinda funny watching the popularity of JSON grow while the world around it constantly spends time reinventing everything around XML like schemas. The biggest difference between REST and WSDL services just boiled down to whether you were using a scripting language or a strongly typed language. Strongly typed languages greatly benefited the extra schema details that WSDL provided. Scripting languages didn't have to care so WSDL seemed bloated and unnecessary. It's only when you start running into all of the problems associated with SOA that WSDL/SOAP already had solved that you truly start to appreciate the original spec.

aikah 11y ago
> Scripting languages didn't have to care so WSDL seemed bloated and unnecessary This is an excellent point. And even a stronger point when one think about the popularity JSON. There is very little advantage with using JSON with Java for instance (architecture wise). XML,SOAP and co gets a lot of hate today. And it's funny how people are now reinventing the wheel with GraphQL and co ... when all that is needed has already been invented but for some religious reasons devs refuse to take advantage of it.