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Why is this running Android instead of Chrome OS? Internal politics are clearly at work. Moreover, why isn't there a stylus. I really, really, appreciate 1:sqr

Why is this running Android instead of Chrome OS? Internal politics are clearly at work. Moreover, why isn't there a stylus. I really, really, appreciate 1:sqrt(2), but without an accurate, ultra low-latency stylus you can't treat it like a pad to express ideas on. The build looks fantastic, though. Arrrrgh, so much promise...

fpgeek 11y ago
> Why is this running Android instead of Chrome OS? Because you can already get convertible touchscreen Chromebooks (e.g. ASUS Chromebook Flip, ThinkPad Yoga 11e Chromebook). Yes, a Chrome OS Pixel C would add a detachable keyboard, but overall it would be a much smaller step from existing Chrome OS devices than the Android Pixel C is from existing Android tablets.
devopsproject 11y ago
the hardware has never been a problem, it was the terrible tablet apps. Seems to be getting better.
wvenable 11y ago
It makes more sense to run Android; a tablet without apps isn't nearly as useful.
georgemcbay 11y ago
One could argue that internal politics (in the form of the rise of Sundar Pichai) are what propped ChromeOS up to the point where it was even a question whether a device like this should run Android or not given that ChromeOS's functionality is theoretically a subset of Android (given a full-featured Chrome browser for Android). I realize that in practice many people buy ChromeOS devices primarily to run Crouton or their own bootloaded Linux build which this is a complication for, but I don't believe that is relevant to the internal politics issue.
- fpgeek 11y ago
  I disagree. I see them as very different value propositions. Chrome OS is about giving you a baseline (80-90%) computing environment with as little administrative overhead as possible (easy to setup, easy to share device, no driver issues and so on). That's why Chromebooks are doing well in the education sector. By contrast, an Android convertible like the Pixel C is about giving you a general-purpose Android environment in a different form factor. There's some blurring around the edges (Android has a Chrome browser missing some desktop features, Chrome OS can run some popular Android apps), but they're nevertheless aiming at very different targets.
  - cwyers 11y ago
    And a device like this points up those distinctions rather well. It's a 2-in-1, like the iPad Pro and the Surface/Surface Pro line. But, and I'd say weirdly even more than the iPad Pro highlights the dichotomy between iOS and OS X, the Pixel C really drives home the difference between Android and ChromeOS. To get the full Google 2-in-1 experience (something that offers all the promise of a tablet AND all the promise of Google's version of a notebook, you'd want something that can run the offline versions of Google Docs that ChromeOS has (not the Android versions that seems geared more towards consumption) and the tablet apps that Android has. So it's a 2-in-1 that's an Android tablet AND an Android notebook. (And honestly, I think this also points out how weak Google's OSes are outside the smartphone space. Android still doesn't have the sort of high-end creation apps for tablets that iPad and Surface have, and ChromeOS doesn't have the sort of productivity apps the Windows, OS X or even Linux offer.)
hspak 11y ago
What would be the point of having Chrome OS on a tablet? I can't think of anything that the Chrome OS would be better at doing on a tablet over Android.
bitmapbrother 11y ago
Android M has Bluetooth stylus support as standard.
- fpgeek 11y ago
  Also, I wouldn't give up on native pen support just yet. NVIDIA's DirectStylus technology is supposed to be processor-based and, more importantly, uses standard touch sensors (no active digitizer required), though it does seem to require support for a faster-than-normal touch refresh rate (NVIDIA's DirectTouch). With luck, good pen support on the Pixel C might be just a software update away...
bobajeff 11y ago
If anything running Chrome OS instead of Android would be a display of internal politics at work. As Android is way more popular than Chrome OS. Plus, Chrome OS aligns better with Google's primary business.
fr0styMatt2 11y ago
I've never understood the point of Chrome OS's existence as a separate thing from Android. So I'm glad it's an Android device.
- eitally 11y ago
  I used to question this, too, but then again, I also sincerely appreciate having a Chromebook that boots in about 5 seconds ... compared to my phone that takes about a minute to go from off to "useful". I know it doesn't matter for consumers as much, but it's far easier to centrally administer ChromeOS devices than Android devices, too.
  - fr0styMatt2 11y ago
    The funny thing about that is that my MacBook Pro boots in a few seconds to a full desktop OS, just as my Windows 10 machine does. The cold-boot time of Android is pretty terrible. Admittedly the devices are pretty slow that it boots on, but still.
amluto 11y ago
ChromeOS may have the best security architecture in any networked consumer device ever sold. Android, on the other hand, is not.
Navarr 11y ago
I think this marks a step in Google's jump into hardware. An important one to denote that "Pixel" does not mean Chrome - it means Google. The previous Pixel, even the first was the "Chromebook Pixel" This is the "Pixel C" One might fathom we could see a "Nexus Pixel" in the future.
- cwyers 11y ago
  What "Pixel" denotes is "cargo cult dogfooding." It's when you sell your customers dry kibble dog food and you have some high-end dogfood around for your engineers, some of the canned stuff that you let the really clever dogs cover in veal demi-glace through Crouton. (Yes, I understand that I'm comparing Ubuntu to something top of the line, it's not a perfect metaphor.) Google, outside of their smartphones, makes computer products for children. I'm serious about this, I'm not being condescending to Google users, I mean actual children. Android tablets are the tablets you give to a four-year-old to occupy them on a long car trip or while you're making dinner. They're small enough for a child to hold comfortably and they're cheap enough for you to not stress out what the child is going to do with them. Chromebooks have caught on in exactly one market, education, because children can be real assholes and giving them a computer that can't actually run software eliminates a lot of the headaches that come from giving Turing-complete devices to real assholes. But Google engineers aren't children. They want real computers. What they probably really want are MacBooks, just like everyone else. But MacBooks aren't dogfood. The Chromebook Pixel exists pretty much entirely so that Google can claim to dogfood ChromeOS and engineers can get a laptop that works for them, if you consider putting up with Ubuntu over OS X working for them. It's all an elaborate charade, in that running a high-end Chromebook Pixel and using Ubuntu through Crouton or just wiping the thing has about as much in common as the $200 Chromebooks that most ChromeOS users actually have as just giving the Google engineers their MacBooks, but Google seems to regard dogfooding as something more honored in the breach than in the observance, so that's just par for the course. So why is this a Pixel and not a Nexus device? Well one, because Google makes it themselves. But why are they making this themselves? Or at all? Because Google engineers want a Surface or iPad Pro. And people who work for Google are about the only market for a Surface or iPad Pro knockoff running Android, because Android is such a terrible tablet ecosystem for anyone who has app needs beyond Netflix and Toca Pet Doctor and I don't see this thing moving the needle on that point. And since it's running Android and not ChromeOS you can't even get any of that Ubuntu demi-glace on it. So even by the standards of the Pixel line this is such an awkward compromise between dogfood and something edible.

fpgeek 11y ago

> Why is this running Android instead of Chrome OS? Because you can already get convertible touchscreen Chromebooks (e.g. ASUS Chromebook Flip, ThinkPad Yoga 11e Chromebook). Yes, a Chrome OS Pixel C would add a detachable keyboard, but overall it would be a much smaller step from existing Chrome OS devices than the Android Pixel C is from existing Android tablets.

devopsproject 11y ago

the hardware has never been a problem, it was the terrible tablet apps. Seems to be getting better.

wvenable 11y ago

It makes more sense to run Android; a tablet without apps isn't nearly as useful.

georgemcbay 11y ago

One could argue that internal politics (in the form of the rise of Sundar Pichai) are what propped ChromeOS up to the point where it was even a question whether a device like this should run Android or not given that ChromeOS's functionality is theoretically a subset of Android (given a full-featured Chrome browser for Android). I realize that in practice many people buy ChromeOS devices primarily to run Crouton or their own bootloaded Linux build which this is a complication for, but I don't believe that is relevant to the internal politics issue.

fpgeek 11y ago
I disagree. I see them as very different value propositions. Chrome OS is about giving you a baseline (80-90%) computing environment with as little administrative overhead as possible (easy to setup, easy to share device, no driver issues and so on). That's why Chromebooks are doing well in the education sector. By contrast, an Android convertible like the Pixel C is about giving you a general-purpose Android environment in a different form factor. There's some blurring around the edges (Android has a Chrome browser missing some desktop features, Chrome OS can run some popular Android apps), but they're nevertheless aiming at very different targets.
- cwyers 11y ago
  And a device like this points up those distinctions rather well. It's a 2-in-1, like the iPad Pro and the Surface/Surface Pro line. But, and I'd say weirdly even more than the iPad Pro highlights the dichotomy between iOS and OS X, the Pixel C really drives home the difference between Android and ChromeOS. To get the full Google 2-in-1 experience (something that offers all the promise of a tablet AND all the promise of Google's version of a notebook, you'd want something that can run the offline versions of Google Docs that ChromeOS has (not the Android versions that seems geared more towards consumption) and the tablet apps that Android has. So it's a 2-in-1 that's an Android tablet AND an Android notebook. (And honestly, I think this also points out how weak Google's OSes are outside the smartphone space. Android still doesn't have the sort of high-end creation apps for tablets that iPad and Surface have, and ChromeOS doesn't have the sort of productivity apps the Windows, OS X or even Linux offer.)

hspak 11y ago

What would be the point of having Chrome OS on a tablet? I can't think of anything that the Chrome OS would be better at doing on a tablet over Android.

bitmapbrother 11y ago

Android M has Bluetooth stylus support as standard.

fpgeek 11y ago
Also, I wouldn't give up on native pen support just yet. NVIDIA's DirectStylus technology is supposed to be processor-based and, more importantly, uses standard touch sensors (no active digitizer required), though it does seem to require support for a faster-than-normal touch refresh rate (NVIDIA's DirectTouch). With luck, good pen support on the Pixel C might be just a software update away...

bobajeff 11y ago

If anything running Chrome OS instead of Android would be a display of internal politics at work. As Android is way more popular than Chrome OS. Plus, Chrome OS aligns better with Google's primary business.

fr0styMatt2 11y ago

I've never understood the point of Chrome OS's existence as a separate thing from Android. So I'm glad it's an Android device.

eitally 11y ago
I used to question this, too, but then again, I also sincerely appreciate having a Chromebook that boots in about 5 seconds ... compared to my phone that takes about a minute to go from off to "useful". I know it doesn't matter for consumers as much, but it's far easier to centrally administer ChromeOS devices than Android devices, too.
- fr0styMatt2 11y ago
  The funny thing about that is that my MacBook Pro boots in a few seconds to a full desktop OS, just as my Windows 10 machine does. The cold-boot time of Android is pretty terrible. Admittedly the devices are pretty slow that it boots on, but still.

amluto 11y ago

ChromeOS may have the best security architecture in any networked consumer device ever sold. Android, on the other hand, is not.

Navarr 11y ago

I think this marks a step in Google's jump into hardware. An important one to denote that "Pixel" does not mean Chrome - it means Google. The previous Pixel, even the first was the "Chromebook Pixel" This is the "Pixel C" One might fathom we could see a "Nexus Pixel" in the future.

cwyers 11y ago
What "Pixel" denotes is "cargo cult dogfooding." It's when you sell your customers dry kibble dog food and you have some high-end dogfood around for your engineers, some of the canned stuff that you let the really clever dogs cover in veal demi-glace through Crouton. (Yes, I understand that I'm comparing Ubuntu to something top of the line, it's not a perfect metaphor.) Google, outside of their smartphones, makes computer products for children. I'm serious about this, I'm not being condescending to Google users, I mean actual children. Android tablets are the tablets you give to a four-year-old to occupy them on a long car trip or while you're making dinner. They're small enough for a child to hold comfortably and they're cheap enough for you to not stress out what the child is going to do with them. Chromebooks have caught on in exactly one market, education, because children can be real assholes and giving them a computer that can't actually run software eliminates a lot of the headaches that come from giving Turing-complete devices to real assholes. But Google engineers aren't children. They want real computers. What they probably really want are MacBooks, just like everyone else. But MacBooks aren't dogfood. The Chromebook Pixel exists pretty much entirely so that Google can claim to dogfood ChromeOS and engineers can get a laptop that works for them, if you consider putting up with Ubuntu over OS X working for them. It's all an elaborate charade, in that running a high-end Chromebook Pixel and using Ubuntu through Crouton or just wiping the thing has about as much in common as the $200 Chromebooks that most ChromeOS users actually have as just giving the Google engineers their MacBooks, but Google seems to regard dogfooding as something more honored in the breach than in the observance, so that's just par for the course. So why is this a Pixel and not a Nexus device? Well one, because Google makes it themselves. But why are they making this themselves? Or at all? Because Google engineers want a Surface or iPad Pro. And people who work for Google are about the only market for a Surface or iPad Pro knockoff running Android, because Android is such a terrible tablet ecosystem for anyone who has app needs beyond Netflix and Toca Pet Doctor and I don't see this thing moving the needle on that point. And since it's running Android and not ChromeOS you can't even get any of that Ubuntu demi-glace on it. So even by the standards of the Pixel line this is such an awkward compromise between dogfood and something edible.