3 ms·

This kind of feels like an opportunity to use bitcoin or another digital currency, doesn't it?

nosuchthing 11y ago
Bitcoin has too high a barrier to entry for normal people, especially impoverished citizens of Greece. Attempts were made with Local Exchange Trading Systems (LETS) which from the sound of it were adhoc swap meets / bartering exchanges which would peg an alternate currency unit [ (Greek: Τοπική Εναλλακτική Μονάδα ("Alternative Monetary Unit"); abbrv: TEM ] to the Euro and in some cases debt was accepted between individuals. TLDR; a ledger/local credit card system might be useful for these communities.. BTC would not help because none of these people could be expected to mine or purchase the coins to begin with.
- civilian 11y ago
  Hmmm. I was gonna call BS on poor greeks not having computers, but http://greece.greekreporter.com/2014/07/15/one-in-three-greeks-does-not-own-a-computer/ http://greece.greekreporter.com/2014/07/15/one-in-three-gree... That's fair, a ledger system would be more helpful here. But for BTC it's not a matter of them needing to mine or purchase bitcoin with money. You just need to bring in a couple people who already have bitcoin and then you buy bitcoin for your meat or tires. Once you have bitcoin, it's possible to turn that into USD in accounts that are external greece, or into another hard currency via that BTC-meetup website.
  - nosuchthing 11y ago
    BTC adds too many layers of complications at which point the issues with exchange in these small local market systems might as well acquire normal tangible currency like Dollars or Euros. And very few people want to trade food, tires, or liquid assets for currency because currency, be it BTC, Euro, Dollar or gold, seems worthless compared to the food or tires. The main issue BTC and Euros can't solve in these situations is the prerequisite of acquiring the money units to begin with in order to facilitate the exchanges and local economy - thus the reason why the swap meets were using TEMs which facilitated a form of debt and exchange medium.
    - msandford 11y ago
      I suppose that Greeks could begin selling their production for export at some discount to foreigners for BTC and then use that BTC for local trade. The people outside cities who have land and use that land to create food (plants and animals) could eventually bring enough BTC into the hands of Greeks to make the economy work in a somewhat normal fashion.
riskneural 11y ago
All the disadvantages of the Euro - low inflation, no control over interest rates - with extreme volatility of demand thrown in?
- msandford 11y ago
  The upshot of BTC is that there isn't a real governing body that has political goals. If you're in the euro you've effectively outsourced monetary policy. With BTC there isn't any. Expectations are a huge deal when dealing with money as that's the only thing that gives it value; other people's expectations. So if your currency is one that everyone expects to fluctuate wildly over time they will behave differently than if they expect it to be very stable.
- aianus 11y ago
  Except, you know, Bitcoin is actually liquid and Greek EUR deposits are not. You can send $1 million in Bitcoin outside the country and buy an apartment somewhere stable or a stack of gold bullion. Not so with Greek EUR deposits. Not to mention EUR deposits in screwed up countries have volatility that puts Bitcoin to shame: http://www.rt.com/business/cyprus-crisis-bailout-deposit-631/ http://www.rt.com/business/cyprus-crisis-bailout-deposit-631...
  - riskneural 11y ago
    http://www.newsbtc.com/2015/05/14/increased-liquidity-on-bitcoin-exchanges-thanks-to-alphapoint/ http://www.newsbtc.com/2015/05/14/increased-liquidity-on-bit...

Bitcoin has too high a barrier to entry for normal people, especially impoverished citizens of Greece. Attempts were made with Local Exchange Trading Systems (LETS) which from the sound of it were adhoc swap meets / bartering exchanges which would peg an alternate currency unit [ (Greek: Τοπική Εναλλακτική Μονάδα ("Alternative Monetary Unit"); abbrv: TEM ] to the Euro and in some cases debt was accepted between individuals. TLDR; a ledger/local credit card system might be useful for these communities.. BTC would not help because none of these people could be expected to mine or purchase the coins to begin with.

civilian 11y ago
Hmmm. I was gonna call BS on poor greeks not having computers, but http://greece.greekreporter.com/2014/07/15/one-in-three-greeks-does-not-own-a-computer/ http://greece.greekreporter.com/2014/07/15/one-in-three-gree... That's fair, a ledger system would be more helpful here. But for BTC it's not a matter of them needing to mine or purchase bitcoin with money. You just need to bring in a couple people who already have bitcoin and then you buy bitcoin for your meat or tires. Once you have bitcoin, it's possible to turn that into USD in accounts that are external greece, or into another hard currency via that BTC-meetup website.
- nosuchthing 11y ago
  BTC adds too many layers of complications at which point the issues with exchange in these small local market systems might as well acquire normal tangible currency like Dollars or Euros. And very few people want to trade food, tires, or liquid assets for currency because currency, be it BTC, Euro, Dollar or gold, seems worthless compared to the food or tires. The main issue BTC and Euros can't solve in these situations is the prerequisite of acquiring the money units to begin with in order to facilitate the exchanges and local economy - thus the reason why the swap meets were using TEMs which facilitated a form of debt and exchange medium.
  - msandford 11y ago
    I suppose that Greeks could begin selling their production for export at some discount to foreigners for BTC and then use that BTC for local trade. The people outside cities who have land and use that land to create food (plants and animals) could eventually bring enough BTC into the hands of Greeks to make the economy work in a somewhat normal fashion.

riskneural 11y ago

All the disadvantages of the Euro - low inflation, no control over interest rates - with extreme volatility of demand thrown in?

msandford 11y ago
The upshot of BTC is that there isn't a real governing body that has political goals. If you're in the euro you've effectively outsourced monetary policy. With BTC there isn't any. Expectations are a huge deal when dealing with money as that's the only thing that gives it value; other people's expectations. So if your currency is one that everyone expects to fluctuate wildly over time they will behave differently than if they expect it to be very stable.
aianus 11y ago
Except, you know, Bitcoin is actually liquid and Greek EUR deposits are not. You can send $1 million in Bitcoin outside the country and buy an apartment somewhere stable or a stack of gold bullion. Not so with Greek EUR deposits. Not to mention EUR deposits in screwed up countries have volatility that puts Bitcoin to shame: http://www.rt.com/business/cyprus-crisis-bailout-deposit-631/ http://www.rt.com/business/cyprus-crisis-bailout-deposit-631...
- riskneural 11y ago
  http://www.newsbtc.com/2015/05/14/increased-liquidity-on-bitcoin-exchanges-thanks-to-alphapoint/ http://www.newsbtc.com/2015/05/14/increased-liquidity-on-bit...