4 ms·

The thing is, I've had 3 different Macbooks, young and old (2011 MBP, retina MBP, macbook air), all on Yosemite, and had none of those issues. It's not unreaso

The thing is, I've had 3 different Macbooks, young and old (2011 MBP, retina MBP, macbook air), all on Yosemite, and had none of those issues. It's not unreasonable to think the reviewers just didn't experience those issues.

ubercore 11y ago
That's true, but also kind of the point. If reviewers can't figure out a review process that illustrates the issues, how useful are they, really, other than a look at features?
- spike021 11y ago
  That makes sense, but then would you expect them to test every configuration of every model that supports the OS they're reviewing?
- on_ 11y ago
  I don't want to speak for spike021, but it is possible this is an edge case that is specific to carlosrg. If it was a localized issue specific to how the OS was installed or how that computers environment was set up, what can a reviewer do? There are as many programming environments as there are programmers. If a review can give as much insight as possible about how the subject changed from the previous version, as well as technical details I consider it a good review. If they themselves, have problems, it would be awesome if they include them as well as any other qualitative data. On balance, there will be subtle differences across hardware and software that can not be addressed in granular detail. The best way to get information is just to read several reviews, and see if any of those people had edgecases. edit: wiredfool pointed this out above, as I was writing this. Having purchased 2 equally specked computers at the same time and experiencing differing results. After upgrading from MAvericks, I personally experienced significantly better battery life. I have edited launch daemons and blocked some outgoing connections which caused coreaudiod to go into an infinite loop using >80% of the cpu. This KILLED my battery and performance. After fixing this issue, both of those metrics were amazing.
  - saurik 11y ago
    This was a bug for which we know the root cause and for which a patch was actually developed. If it wasn't affecting you, I will argue it is more likely that you just have a high tolerance for these kinds of conflicts. https://medium.com/@mariociabarra/wifried-ios-8-wifi-performance-issues-3029a164ce94 https://medium.com/@mariociabarra/wifried-ios-8-wifi-perform...
    - spike021 11y ago
      Interesting post. I had come across wifried in the past but didn't personally feel a need to use it. You definitely have a fair point that it could very well be a case of "out of sight, out of mind." Maybe not as noticeable for some people, especially since it's also possibly related to older hardware not supporting full AirDrop.
    - on_ 11y ago
      hmmm. I was referring to CPU and battery above but I looked into it a bit further. Also, connectivity is HORRIBLE on my iphone iOS 9.1 so thank you. I don't know how to confirm the wi-fi issues independently here. I have gamecenter.app deleted, airdrop and bluetooth disabled and many of the sharing and push notification services are disabled. I have fairly decent connectivity and not much seems to change after disabling awdl0, a speedtest seems pretty similar. I am now really interested. Is there a way I can run a better speedtest, and also check if these issues you describe are happening because it sounds as if it is sporadic. Also, is there a way to use something other than bonjour/mdnsresponder via wi-fi? I could not find anything which is why I still use it unfortunately. edit: Also, almost forgot. > This was a bug for which we know the root cause and for which a patch was actually developed. What? I have seen issues surrounding coreaudiod but none of them are referenced in your post. The post actually explained the iOS connectivity issues I am having but doesn't seem related to a glitch in the core services daemon, which seems to affect some users, and was almost certainly self-inflicted. Now, I want to test my connectivity to confirm, but it seems alright most of the time.
- baddox 11y ago
  It's incredibly difficult to figure out what portion of users experience a certain issue, especially for a very new (or even unreleased) OS, and especially for things like WiFi performance and battery life, which most users don't measure rigorously and thus may be imagining or exaggerating the problem.
- Joky 11y ago
  So basically, are you expecting the reviewer to spend hours and hours of QA testing to try to find bug that the OEM didn't find during the pre-release test? It seems obvious to me that a technical review will be pretty limited in term of "stability" evaluation. They will run a few tests, but it can't cover all the configurations. Especially things like the wifi issue which were mostly triggered depending on the network environment (what is your access point? What other devices are connected? etc.)
  - derefr 11y ago
    I would imagine the reviewer could have done some investigative journalism: put a call out for people having problems with the beta, collected stories, and set up configurations to try to reproduce those. Not just trusting what people say, but not going all the way to QA, either.
    - Joky 11y ago
      Ok, presented this way it sounds fair to me!
wiredfool 11y ago
My wife and I have identical refurb Air 2012s, I bought mine with Mavericks, hers came with Yosemite. There's maybe a 6 month difference between them. My battery life way better than hers. I'd suspect hardware, but the battery capacities check out ok. Hers just sucks the juice way faster than mine.
- spike021 11y ago
  Odd. I'm guessing you both use them fairly similarly? I'm not saying Yosemite is perfect; I'm sure there were problems with it at the start. To me, the original person I responded to seemed to kind of just make a blanket statement and I wanted to make sure it was known that there are counter-examples (based on anecdotal evidence anyway).
- pbreit 11y ago
  I'm not sure comparing refurbs is the best idea. While they do come with new batteries (I think), who knows what else could be quite different.
  - wiredfool 11y ago
    That would be a good question. They're identically spec'd machines of roughly the same age with batteries that are within 1% full charge capacity. They re both on the same wifi, Bluetooth is off. Display brightness varies, but neither is cranked, I'm not sure what else hardware wise could be seriously different. The biggest difference is the os. I will concede that usage varies, hers hits Facebook, mine Twitter. And I run virtualbox but she doesn't. We're both running safari, chrome and mail.
maxxxxx 11y ago
I have a 2014 MacBook Pro and had the Yosemite Wifi issues. And looking at the Apple forums a ton of other people had them too. It has become better (from totally unusable) but Wifi still cuts out from time to time. I wonder if these problems were already apparent during the test phase.
- tolle 11y ago
  I have no issues. Until I enable my Bluetooth mouse. Easily solved by using the 5ghz band but really. An apple mouse fucks up my connection from my apple laptop to my apple access point. That's really unacceptable.
  - ianlevesque 11y ago
    Yeah, physics sucks.
    - makomk 11y ago
      Modern WiFi and Bluetooth hardware is meant to have coexistence support so that the two don't trample all over each other.
    - maxxxxx 11y ago
      I have the same problem and apparently the laws of physics changed when Yosemite was released. Before it was fine.
  - autoreverse 11y ago
    I too had WiFi trouble when bluetooth was enabled. The commands below fixed it for me (it might be that only one was effective but I've had no trouble since Feb 7). YMMV. sudo ifconfig awdl0 down defaults write com.apple.NetworkBrowser DisableAirDrop -boolean YES
- fuzzywalrus 11y ago
  Once Apple ditched DiscoverD, my wifi and bluetooth woes disappeared instantly. I had a problem where my connection speed suddenly would drop to no more that about 7k as second through wifi which required zapping the PRAM on my 2013 MacBook Pro until a week or so the connection would start exhibiting the same problems. mDNSresponder seems to work like a charm in Yosemite.
noja 11y ago
But the reason these issues do not exist is that Apple has full control over the hardware _and_ the operating system.

ubercore 11y ago

That's true, but also kind of the point. If reviewers can't figure out a review process that illustrates the issues, how useful are they, really, other than a look at features?

spike021 11y ago
That makes sense, but then would you expect them to test every configuration of every model that supports the OS they're reviewing?
on_ 11y ago
I don't want to speak for spike021, but it is possible this is an edge case that is specific to carlosrg. If it was a localized issue specific to how the OS was installed or how that computers environment was set up, what can a reviewer do? There are as many programming environments as there are programmers. If a review can give as much insight as possible about how the subject changed from the previous version, as well as technical details I consider it a good review. If they themselves, have problems, it would be awesome if they include them as well as any other qualitative data. On balance, there will be subtle differences across hardware and software that can not be addressed in granular detail. The best way to get information is just to read several reviews, and see if any of those people had edgecases. edit: wiredfool pointed this out above, as I was writing this. Having purchased 2 equally specked computers at the same time and experiencing differing results. After upgrading from MAvericks, I personally experienced significantly better battery life. I have edited launch daemons and blocked some outgoing connections which caused coreaudiod to go into an infinite loop using >80% of the cpu. This KILLED my battery and performance. After fixing this issue, both of those metrics were amazing.
- saurik 11y ago
  This was a bug for which we know the root cause and for which a patch was actually developed. If it wasn't affecting you, I will argue it is more likely that you just have a high tolerance for these kinds of conflicts. https://medium.com/@mariociabarra/wifried-ios-8-wifi-performance-issues-3029a164ce94 https://medium.com/@mariociabarra/wifried-ios-8-wifi-perform...
  - spike021 11y ago
    Interesting post. I had come across wifried in the past but didn't personally feel a need to use it. You definitely have a fair point that it could very well be a case of "out of sight, out of mind." Maybe not as noticeable for some people, especially since it's also possibly related to older hardware not supporting full AirDrop.
  - on_ 11y ago
    hmmm. I was referring to CPU and battery above but I looked into it a bit further. Also, connectivity is HORRIBLE on my iphone iOS 9.1 so thank you. I don't know how to confirm the wi-fi issues independently here. I have gamecenter.app deleted, airdrop and bluetooth disabled and many of the sharing and push notification services are disabled. I have fairly decent connectivity and not much seems to change after disabling awdl0, a speedtest seems pretty similar. I am now really interested. Is there a way I can run a better speedtest, and also check if these issues you describe are happening because it sounds as if it is sporadic. Also, is there a way to use something other than bonjour/mdnsresponder via wi-fi? I could not find anything which is why I still use it unfortunately. edit: Also, almost forgot. > This was a bug for which we know the root cause and for which a patch was actually developed. What? I have seen issues surrounding coreaudiod but none of them are referenced in your post. The post actually explained the iOS connectivity issues I am having but doesn't seem related to a glitch in the core services daemon, which seems to affect some users, and was almost certainly self-inflicted. Now, I want to test my connectivity to confirm, but it seems alright most of the time.
baddox 11y ago
It's incredibly difficult to figure out what portion of users experience a certain issue, especially for a very new (or even unreleased) OS, and especially for things like WiFi performance and battery life, which most users don't measure rigorously and thus may be imagining or exaggerating the problem.
Joky 11y ago
So basically, are you expecting the reviewer to spend hours and hours of QA testing to try to find bug that the OEM didn't find during the pre-release test? It seems obvious to me that a technical review will be pretty limited in term of "stability" evaluation. They will run a few tests, but it can't cover all the configurations. Especially things like the wifi issue which were mostly triggered depending on the network environment (what is your access point? What other devices are connected? etc.)
- derefr 11y ago
  I would imagine the reviewer could have done some investigative journalism: put a call out for people having problems with the beta, collected stories, and set up configurations to try to reproduce those. Not just trusting what people say, but not going all the way to QA, either.
  - Joky 11y ago
    Ok, presented this way it sounds fair to me!

wiredfool 11y ago

My wife and I have identical refurb Air 2012s, I bought mine with Mavericks, hers came with Yosemite. There's maybe a 6 month difference between them. My battery life way better than hers. I'd suspect hardware, but the battery capacities check out ok. Hers just sucks the juice way faster than mine.

spike021 11y ago
Odd. I'm guessing you both use them fairly similarly? I'm not saying Yosemite is perfect; I'm sure there were problems with it at the start. To me, the original person I responded to seemed to kind of just make a blanket statement and I wanted to make sure it was known that there are counter-examples (based on anecdotal evidence anyway).
pbreit 11y ago
I'm not sure comparing refurbs is the best idea. While they do come with new batteries (I think), who knows what else could be quite different.
- wiredfool 11y ago
  That would be a good question. They're identically spec'd machines of roughly the same age with batteries that are within 1% full charge capacity. They re both on the same wifi, Bluetooth is off. Display brightness varies, but neither is cranked, I'm not sure what else hardware wise could be seriously different. The biggest difference is the os. I will concede that usage varies, hers hits Facebook, mine Twitter. And I run virtualbox but she doesn't. We're both running safari, chrome and mail.

maxxxxx 11y ago

I have a 2014 MacBook Pro and had the Yosemite Wifi issues. And looking at the Apple forums a ton of other people had them too. It has become better (from totally unusable) but Wifi still cuts out from time to time. I wonder if these problems were already apparent during the test phase.

tolle 11y ago
I have no issues. Until I enable my Bluetooth mouse. Easily solved by using the 5ghz band but really. An apple mouse fucks up my connection from my apple laptop to my apple access point. That's really unacceptable.
- ianlevesque 11y ago
  Yeah, physics sucks.
  - makomk 11y ago
    Modern WiFi and Bluetooth hardware is meant to have coexistence support so that the two don't trample all over each other.
  - maxxxxx 11y ago
    I have the same problem and apparently the laws of physics changed when Yosemite was released. Before it was fine.
- autoreverse 11y ago
  I too had WiFi trouble when bluetooth was enabled. The commands below fixed it for me (it might be that only one was effective but I've had no trouble since Feb 7). YMMV. sudo ifconfig awdl0 down defaults write com.apple.NetworkBrowser DisableAirDrop -boolean YES
fuzzywalrus 11y ago
Once Apple ditched DiscoverD, my wifi and bluetooth woes disappeared instantly. I had a problem where my connection speed suddenly would drop to no more that about 7k as second through wifi which required zapping the PRAM on my 2013 MacBook Pro until a week or so the connection would start exhibiting the same problems. mDNSresponder seems to work like a charm in Yosemite.

noja 11y ago

But the reason these issues do not exist is that Apple has full control over the hardware _and_ the operating system.