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What's the recommendation if you're using command/shell utilities on upgrading vs. clean install from Yosemite to El Capitan? I usually do a clean install, but

What's the recommendation if you're using command/shell utilities on upgrading vs. clean install from Yosemite to El Capitan? I usually do a clean install, but would an upgrade be advisable?

asdfjkln 11y ago
I've upgraded my Macbook Air since Lion without issue. There's no reason to expect trouble coming from the new security features as homebrew/macports as well as sane make scripts default to installing outside system directories anyway. In the worst case, you'll just have to reinstall the offending applications. Of course you still do a backup before in case the universe blows up.
- nieve 11y ago
  Homebrew installing outside system directories hasn't protected it in the past and the directory/root lockdown isn't the only change, remember the tun/tap CF that got dropped in their lap? The 10.9 to 10.10 transition broke a lot of things and more than a few were caused by the security changes. Do not trust homebrew to work properly on 10.11 until they can find & stomp on all the bugs Apple has graciously handed them, it's not a safe bet at all and more than a few network apps (for example) do need root at some points.
acdha 11y ago
I've done upgrades since 10.1 was released without issues. If you've followed Apple's filesystem layout and haven't altered system files or rely on some exotic kernel extensions, you'll be fine. The one annoyance I've encountered is that the installer will move everything in /usr/local out of the way before doing the upgrade and moving it back. If you have a large Homebrew install, it will be much faster to move the directory first and restore it later rather than waiting for the file-by-file copy to complete, even on when using SSDs.
- to3m 11y ago
  I only did upgrades on my old MBP too, and always found it fine. I went from Leopard to Snow Leopard to Lion to Mountain Lion to Mavericks. Nothing serious went wrong at any point (though I did have to reinstall or update the odd program), and there was no noticeable deterioration in performance over time. There was the odd infuriating bug (I'm not convinced it's tested as thoroughly as Windows is...), but overall it was fairly trouble free and the smooth upgrade process played a part in my decision to buy another. It certainly wasn't the price, at any rate.
- eslaught 11y ago
  > The one annoyance I've encountered is that the installer will move everything in /usr/local out of the way before doing the upgrade and moving it back. This can be a significant point. I thought my computer was bricked when I did one of the previous upgrades (maybe Mavericks?) and the upgrade took something like 14 hours (with no change in the progress bar).
  - acdha 11y ago
    It's definitely mind-boggling just how inefficient it is – feels like 1-byte writes followed by a full fsync based on how it can keep an SSD capable of 10K ios busy for a period measured in hours.
lojack 11y ago
It broke a couple things for me. Upgrading XCode, updating homebrew, and chown-ing /usr/local seemed to fix everything.
- alanh 11y ago
  brew doctor Such a great tool. It can more often than not correctly suggest resolutions to problems with homebrew. It’s a level of helpfulness to which many dev tools can aspire.
rsync 11y ago
"What's the recommendation if you're using command/shell utilities on upgrading vs. clean install" Always a clean install. Always. Whether it's NT4 or Win95 or Classic Mac or Snow Leopard or Mavericks ... always, always do a wipe and a clean install. Life is too short to deal with the alternative.
- Timothee 11y ago
  Life is too short to deal with the alternative. It's potentially contradictory: the alternative is upgrading your OS and find pretty much everything where you left it, instead of having to reinstall everything. I.e. life is too short to spend time reinstalling everything. Surely, it's an opportunity to do some cleanup of unused stuff, but otherwise, I haven't had a lot of problems upgrading OS X. (nothing memorable at least)
  - jonhohle 11y ago
    Too add to this, on my personal MBP I have the same home directory that I originally created in OS 10.2. I've used migration assistant, swapped/cloned drives, and in-place upgraded for the past 12 years. My work MBP is similar for the past 6 years. I've had 2 or 3 issues where old config was the root cause, but those are few and far between. I might be an outlier, but it's always just "worked for me". Edit: oops!
    - Timothee 11y ago
      > created in OS 10.10.2 Of course, you meant OS 10.2 (a.k.a. Jaguar). Otherwise, it's not that impressive ;-)
      - jonhohle 11y ago
        Fixed, thanks.
- TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
  Windows and OS X upgrades are an apples-to-oranges comparison. Windows handles upgrades far less gracefully.

What's the recommendation if you're using command/shell utilities on upgrading vs. clean install from Yosemite to El Capitan? I usually do a clean install, but would an upgrade be advisable?

asdfjkln 11y ago

I've upgraded my Macbook Air since Lion without issue. There's no reason to expect trouble coming from the new security features as homebrew/macports as well as sane make scripts default to installing outside system directories anyway. In the worst case, you'll just have to reinstall the offending applications. Of course you still do a backup before in case the universe blows up.

nieve 11y ago
Homebrew installing outside system directories hasn't protected it in the past and the directory/root lockdown isn't the only change, remember the tun/tap CF that got dropped in their lap? The 10.9 to 10.10 transition broke a lot of things and more than a few were caused by the security changes. Do not trust homebrew to work properly on 10.11 until they can find & stomp on all the bugs Apple has graciously handed them, it's not a safe bet at all and more than a few network apps (for example) do need root at some points.

acdha 11y ago

I've done upgrades since 10.1 was released without issues. If you've followed Apple's filesystem layout and haven't altered system files or rely on some exotic kernel extensions, you'll be fine. The one annoyance I've encountered is that the installer will move everything in /usr/local out of the way before doing the upgrade and moving it back. If you have a large Homebrew install, it will be much faster to move the directory first and restore it later rather than waiting for the file-by-file copy to complete, even on when using SSDs.

to3m 11y ago
I only did upgrades on my old MBP too, and always found it fine. I went from Leopard to Snow Leopard to Lion to Mountain Lion to Mavericks. Nothing serious went wrong at any point (though I did have to reinstall or update the odd program), and there was no noticeable deterioration in performance over time. There was the odd infuriating bug (I'm not convinced it's tested as thoroughly as Windows is...), but overall it was fairly trouble free and the smooth upgrade process played a part in my decision to buy another. It certainly wasn't the price, at any rate.
eslaught 11y ago
> The one annoyance I've encountered is that the installer will move everything in /usr/local out of the way before doing the upgrade and moving it back. This can be a significant point. I thought my computer was bricked when I did one of the previous upgrades (maybe Mavericks?) and the upgrade took something like 14 hours (with no change in the progress bar).
- acdha 11y ago
  It's definitely mind-boggling just how inefficient it is – feels like 1-byte writes followed by a full fsync based on how it can keep an SSD capable of 10K ios busy for a period measured in hours.

lojack 11y ago

It broke a couple things for me. Upgrading XCode, updating homebrew, and chown-ing /usr/local seemed to fix everything.

alanh 11y ago
brew doctor Such a great tool. It can more often than not correctly suggest resolutions to problems with homebrew. It’s a level of helpfulness to which many dev tools can aspire.

rsync 11y ago

"What's the recommendation if you're using command/shell utilities on upgrading vs. clean install" Always a clean install. Always. Whether it's NT4 or Win95 or Classic Mac or Snow Leopard or Mavericks ... always, always do a wipe and a clean install. Life is too short to deal with the alternative.

Timothee 11y ago
Life is too short to deal with the alternative. It's potentially contradictory: the alternative is upgrading your OS and find pretty much everything where you left it, instead of having to reinstall everything. I.e. life is too short to spend time reinstalling everything. Surely, it's an opportunity to do some cleanup of unused stuff, but otherwise, I haven't had a lot of problems upgrading OS X. (nothing memorable at least)
- jonhohle 11y ago
  Too add to this, on my personal MBP I have the same home directory that I originally created in OS 10.2. I've used migration assistant, swapped/cloned drives, and in-place upgraded for the past 12 years. My work MBP is similar for the past 6 years. I've had 2 or 3 issues where old config was the root cause, but those are few and far between. I might be an outlier, but it's always just "worked for me". Edit: oops!
  - Timothee 11y ago
    > created in OS 10.10.2 Of course, you meant OS 10.2 (a.k.a. Jaguar). Otherwise, it's not that impressive ;-)
    - jonhohle 11y ago
      Fixed, thanks.
TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
Windows and OS X upgrades are an apples-to-oranges comparison. Windows handles upgrades far less gracefully.