5 ms·

Am I the only one that's tired of this bills showing up every 3-6 months? What will it take to stop this type of BS for good... or is that an impossible dream?

sp332 11y ago
You could get a supreme court decision in one of these cases to declare such a law unconstitutional.
tptacek 11y ago
Which bill are you referring to that's showing up every 3-6 months?
- switch007 11y ago
  You know francoisdevlin meant "these" (and therefore likely "these types of bills")
  - simoncion 11y ago
    I'm not tptacek, but I've found that it's usually better to ask for clarification when a part of a sentence doesn't parse, rather than to jump to conclusions.
protomyth 11y ago
Gather friends, find out the primary sponsor, and primary out / support the other candidate next time an election cycle happens. Be very vocal and very clear that any candidate of any party who introduces this type of bill or toxic amendment will get the same. Do not look at any other issue or political party affiliation. Make the politicians fear you.
- tptacek 11y ago
  Has any incumbent ever lost a primary due to activism over EFF-type issues?
  - protomyth 11y ago
    Eric Cantor lost due to activism by the Tea Party, but no, the EFF is not feared by any candidate (I've never found a reference in any news service of any fear). You would think with all the money in tech and all the lip service to these issues that wouldn't be true.
    - tptacek 11y ago
      I'm not sure what Eric Cantor has to do with this issue. Clearly some candidates do lose primary challenges. Is it your argument that "Your Rights Online" advocacy has as much of a grassroots as hard-right-wing conservatism? How well-attended was the largest Y.R.O. demonstration? How would that compare to conservative demonstrations? Obviously, my subtext is that the belief that there's a potent grassroots waiting to be activated over Y.R.O. issues is an online echo-chamber fallacy.
      - protomyth 11y ago
        Eric Cantor proved its possible to primary out a incumbent if you have a group focused on an issue. YRO doesn't have to numbers the Tea Party has, but FreedomWorks does Tea Party issues and has done YRO issues. I actually believe there are the numbers. I just believe that an organization that has the discipline to attack candidates in the manner, for example, of the NRA is just not there in the YRO space.
        tptacek 11y ago
        Is there any numeric evidence you can find for the latent support for YRO issues you claim exists? My immediate reaction is that the NRA speaks to core identity issues for 100% of rural voters and the overwhelming majority of the half of the country that identifies as "conservative", as well as a pretty big chunk of non-conservatives who see guns as a constitutional bulwhark issue or who just like to nerd out on guns. So it's not surprising to me that NRA activism generates attendance and financial support that dwarfs that of YRO issues, which have none of those features. Again: there may have been YRO-type demonstrations that generated big numbers that would rebut this argument. Maybe you can find one? Otherwise, this is a bit like saying "you can boot a candidate over abortion issues", which handwaves away the fact that abortion is a much, much, much hotter issue in the electorate than YRO issues are. I'm not, like, personally invested in the idea that YRO lacks broad support. I'd probably like a lot of YRO reforms. But I am invested in the notion that we are all talking and debating inside of an echo chamber that is only loosely connected to reality.
- tremon 11y ago
  And if the primary sponsor is not in your state? I'm not a US citizen, so I'm not familiar with what "primary out" means.
  - protomyth 11y ago
    Primary Out is a term used to describe running a candidate against another to beat them in the primary. It is generally the only recourse to elect a new person in a district or state that will not vote for the other party. Eric Cantor is a prime example of a candidate that was thought safe but was defeated in a primary because a large group of people took offense to him in his own party. [edit: http://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/primary-types.aspx http://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/primary... explain primaries in various states. tldr: party selects person via primary (various ways to vote) that gets their name on general election ballot under that party's name]
    - tptacek 11y ago
      This is the second time you've brought up Eric Cantor. Cantor's defeat was a historic upset that surprised all of Washington despite being the product of the largest political activism movement of the last decade. Which is to say that even when you've got the entire Tea Party movement at your back, it's still so difficult to oust an incumbent in a primary that it's shocking when it happens. Whitehouse getting booted over CFAA is approximately as likely as Lessig winning the Presidency.
      - protomyth 11y ago
        I don't think I disagree with you (see my other reply), but it shows its possible which a lot of people don't believe. Right now there is no effective group in this space.
      - pc86 11y ago
        In fairness, the reason it was shocking was the fact that Rep. Cantor was the House Majority Leader, arguably one of the half dozen most powerful people in the country. Not that an incumbent happened to lose in a primary.
reefoctopus 11y ago
>What will it take to stop this type of BS for good They'll stop when they pass the bill that lobbyists for this issue want.
theandrewbailey 11y ago
It would help if these politicians stop being re-elected.

sp332 11y ago

You could get a supreme court decision in one of these cases to declare such a law unconstitutional.

tptacek 11y ago

Which bill are you referring to that's showing up every 3-6 months?

switch007 11y ago
You know francoisdevlin meant "these" (and therefore likely "these types of bills")
- simoncion 11y ago
  I'm not tptacek, but I've found that it's usually better to ask for clarification when a part of a sentence doesn't parse, rather than to jump to conclusions.

protomyth 11y ago

Gather friends, find out the primary sponsor, and primary out / support the other candidate next time an election cycle happens. Be very vocal and very clear that any candidate of any party who introduces this type of bill or toxic amendment will get the same. Do not look at any other issue or political party affiliation. Make the politicians fear you.

tptacek 11y ago
Has any incumbent ever lost a primary due to activism over EFF-type issues?
- protomyth 11y ago
  Eric Cantor lost due to activism by the Tea Party, but no, the EFF is not feared by any candidate (I've never found a reference in any news service of any fear). You would think with all the money in tech and all the lip service to these issues that wouldn't be true.
  - tptacek 11y ago
    I'm not sure what Eric Cantor has to do with this issue. Clearly some candidates do lose primary challenges. Is it your argument that "Your Rights Online" advocacy has as much of a grassroots as hard-right-wing conservatism? How well-attended was the largest Y.R.O. demonstration? How would that compare to conservative demonstrations? Obviously, my subtext is that the belief that there's a potent grassroots waiting to be activated over Y.R.O. issues is an online echo-chamber fallacy.
    - protomyth 11y ago
      Eric Cantor proved its possible to primary out a incumbent if you have a group focused on an issue. YRO doesn't have to numbers the Tea Party has, but FreedomWorks does Tea Party issues and has done YRO issues. I actually believe there are the numbers. I just believe that an organization that has the discipline to attack candidates in the manner, for example, of the NRA is just not there in the YRO space.
      - tptacek 11y ago
        Is there any numeric evidence you can find for the latent support for YRO issues you claim exists? My immediate reaction is that the NRA speaks to core identity issues for 100% of rural voters and the overwhelming majority of the half of the country that identifies as "conservative", as well as a pretty big chunk of non-conservatives who see guns as a constitutional bulwhark issue or who just like to nerd out on guns. So it's not surprising to me that NRA activism generates attendance and financial support that dwarfs that of YRO issues, which have none of those features. Again: there may have been YRO-type demonstrations that generated big numbers that would rebut this argument. Maybe you can find one? Otherwise, this is a bit like saying "you can boot a candidate over abortion issues", which handwaves away the fact that abortion is a much, much, much hotter issue in the electorate than YRO issues are. I'm not, like, personally invested in the idea that YRO lacks broad support. I'd probably like a lot of YRO reforms. But I am invested in the notion that we are all talking and debating inside of an echo chamber that is only loosely connected to reality.
tremon 11y ago
And if the primary sponsor is not in your state? I'm not a US citizen, so I'm not familiar with what "primary out" means.
- protomyth 11y ago
  Primary Out is a term used to describe running a candidate against another to beat them in the primary. It is generally the only recourse to elect a new person in a district or state that will not vote for the other party. Eric Cantor is a prime example of a candidate that was thought safe but was defeated in a primary because a large group of people took offense to him in his own party. [edit: http://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/primary-types.aspx http://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/primary... explain primaries in various states. tldr: party selects person via primary (various ways to vote) that gets their name on general election ballot under that party's name]
  - tptacek 11y ago
    This is the second time you've brought up Eric Cantor. Cantor's defeat was a historic upset that surprised all of Washington despite being the product of the largest political activism movement of the last decade. Which is to say that even when you've got the entire Tea Party movement at your back, it's still so difficult to oust an incumbent in a primary that it's shocking when it happens. Whitehouse getting booted over CFAA is approximately as likely as Lessig winning the Presidency.
    - protomyth 11y ago
      I don't think I disagree with you (see my other reply), but it shows its possible which a lot of people don't believe. Right now there is no effective group in this space.
    - pc86 11y ago
      In fairness, the reason it was shocking was the fact that Rep. Cantor was the House Majority Leader, arguably one of the half dozen most powerful people in the country. Not that an incumbent happened to lose in a primary.

reefoctopus 11y ago

>What will it take to stop this type of BS for good They'll stop when they pass the bill that lobbyists for this issue want.

theandrewbailey 11y ago

It would help if these politicians stop being re-elected.