5 ms·

This is a big step for Amazon, and one that I can imagine them eventually offering as a service to other companies that need to provide real-time delivery. And,

This is a big step for Amazon, and one that I can imagine them eventually offering as a service to other companies that need to provide real-time delivery. And, $18 to $25 an hour represents close to a livable wage, although less than it seems once you take into account depreciation of your personal automobile (which is why the future transit and bike options are particularly intriguing.) But, it also calls out the need for government programs to stop assuming that workers will have a single long-term employer. Obamacare already started this process. We should be developing analogous policies for sick leave, family leave, and retirement savings that are decoupled from your employer. Nick Hanauer has done good work thinking about what these programs will need to look like: http://www.businessinsider.com/americans-need-a-new-social-contract-for-the-sharing-economy-2015-7 http://www.businessinsider.com/americans-need-a-new-social-c...

ihsw 11y ago
> although less than it seems once you take into account depreciation of your personal automobile (which is why the future transit and bike options are particularly intriguing.) Vehicles depreciate a fair bit when they roll straight out of the parking lot. Vehicles depreciate over time staying parked in your drive way/garage. Racking up miles on the odometer will definitely inflict wear and tear, especially in wintery climates (read: salt water corrosion), but depreciation will occur regardless. Where do most personal vehicles end up? Does everybody resell to dealerships or friends/ family/ co-workers/ random people on Craigslist? Most people have accepted that the resale value a vehicle will be significantly lower than the purchase price, and honestly I think depreciation should be the least of our concerns. And with regards for sick leave, family leave, and retirement savings that are decoupled from the employer -- look outside of the US and you will find it.
- dankohn1 11y ago
  > I think depreciation should be the least of our concerns Here is a superb article showing that depreciation (and fuel) costs 19% of an Uber driver's pay: http://citypaper.net/uberdriver/ http://citypaper.net/uberdriver/ So, that's $14.58 to $20.25 instead of $18 to $25.
  - kingnothing 11y ago
    If you're working 40 hours a week, that translates to $30,000 - $40,000 per year. That's a very livable wage for completely unskilled labor.
iridium127 11y ago
Hopefully they pay for car mileage in addition to the $18-$25/hr... (should be 57.5 cents per mile for business miles, apparently)... because that alone could easily amount to $18/hr.
- dankohn1 11y ago
  I'm certain they don't separately pay for mileage.
- kpwagner 11y ago
  I agree that there are many explicit and implicit costs to owning and operating a vehicle. I expect the rhetoric from the "employer" side to say this program is great for people who already own a vehicle because that vehicle will be better utilized. My position: I would be very cautious getting involved with a program like this. I'm willing to bet the effective wage is below minimum wage in some regions of the US. If it really made sense for Amazon on an ROIC basis they would just do it in house; and when the numbers work to their benefit, I'm sure they will (drones). Disclaimer: I don't like Jeff Bezos and would not work for Amazon barring extraordinary circumstances.
- tzier 11y ago
  $0.575/mi isn't a good indicator of actual cost. It's a method the IRS created to reduce the complexity of tracking all car expenses separately (good for both taxpayer and IRS). In most cases it's very generous. For example: * ~$0.30 is for gas, but if you're driving a fuel efficient Prius then your actual per mile cost is lower ($3.00/gal / 50mpg = $0.06/mi; though offset by battery replacement cost, don't know how much that costs or how often) * If your car is over 5 years old, you wouldn't be able to claim depreciation on it. But the standard mileage rate includes depreciation, so you're getting to deduct additional cost if your car is >5 years and you use the standard mileage rate. That's not to say wear and tear isn't a significant cost...just that your actual cost is usually much lower than the standard mileage rate.
forgotAgain 11y ago
Also have to factor in the risk of using your car for commercial purposes and/or adding the cost for commercial insurance.

ihsw 11y ago

> although less than it seems once you take into account depreciation of your personal automobile (which is why the future transit and bike options are particularly intriguing.) Vehicles depreciate a fair bit when they roll straight out of the parking lot. Vehicles depreciate over time staying parked in your drive way/garage. Racking up miles on the odometer will definitely inflict wear and tear, especially in wintery climates (read: salt water corrosion), but depreciation will occur regardless. Where do most personal vehicles end up? Does everybody resell to dealerships or friends/ family/ co-workers/ random people on Craigslist? Most people have accepted that the resale value a vehicle will be significantly lower than the purchase price, and honestly I think depreciation should be the least of our concerns. And with regards for sick leave, family leave, and retirement savings that are decoupled from the employer -- look outside of the US and you will find it.

dankohn1 11y ago
> I think depreciation should be the least of our concerns Here is a superb article showing that depreciation (and fuel) costs 19% of an Uber driver's pay: http://citypaper.net/uberdriver/ http://citypaper.net/uberdriver/ So, that's $14.58 to $20.25 instead of $18 to $25.
- kingnothing 11y ago
  If you're working 40 hours a week, that translates to $30,000 - $40,000 per year. That's a very livable wage for completely unskilled labor.

iridium127 11y ago

Hopefully they pay for car mileage in addition to the $18-$25/hr... (should be 57.5 cents per mile for business miles, apparently)... because that alone could easily amount to $18/hr.

dankohn1 11y ago
I'm certain they don't separately pay for mileage.
kpwagner 11y ago
I agree that there are many explicit and implicit costs to owning and operating a vehicle. I expect the rhetoric from the "employer" side to say this program is great for people who already own a vehicle because that vehicle will be better utilized. My position: I would be very cautious getting involved with a program like this. I'm willing to bet the effective wage is below minimum wage in some regions of the US. If it really made sense for Amazon on an ROIC basis they would just do it in house; and when the numbers work to their benefit, I'm sure they will (drones). Disclaimer: I don't like Jeff Bezos and would not work for Amazon barring extraordinary circumstances.
tzier 11y ago
$0.575/mi isn't a good indicator of actual cost. It's a method the IRS created to reduce the complexity of tracking all car expenses separately (good for both taxpayer and IRS). In most cases it's very generous. For example: * ~$0.30 is for gas, but if you're driving a fuel efficient Prius then your actual per mile cost is lower ($3.00/gal / 50mpg = $0.06/mi; though offset by battery replacement cost, don't know how much that costs or how often) * If your car is over 5 years old, you wouldn't be able to claim depreciation on it. But the standard mileage rate includes depreciation, so you're getting to deduct additional cost if your car is >5 years and you use the standard mileage rate. That's not to say wear and tear isn't a significant cost...just that your actual cost is usually much lower than the standard mileage rate.

forgotAgain 11y ago

Also have to factor in the risk of using your car for commercial purposes and/or adding the cost for commercial insurance.