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I'm surprised they aren't launching with cyclists too. Maybe they don't know the size of the backpack / basket that the delivery person has? I kinda just bike a

I'm surprised they aren't launching with cyclists too. Maybe they don't know the size of the backpack / basket that the delivery person has? I kinda just bike around Toronto for fun / exercise (up to 100kms in a day) and if I didn't have to alter my bike I could consider doing it. Plus it is faster in many parts of the city to bike than to take car or transit.

Avalaxy 11y ago
Aside from that it seems like a horrible waste of non-renewal energy source to let someone drive to an address just to deliver one package.
- IkmoIkmo 11y ago
  I wonder... we know two things, one is that an electric motors can get around 90%+ efficiency. The human body I can't recall exactly but if I remember correctly it's centered around 20% or so for most exercises. Two is that 1 m2 of a solar panel converts around 15-20% of insolation to electricity, whereas 1 m2 of random plants gets about ±0.5%, most crops around 2% and the top performer is sugarcane which is still at just 8%. Typical diet however would probably be 2% efficient crops, a lot of which is then wasted before it gets on your plate, not in the least due to a lot of agricultural output going towards animals who turn it into 'meat-energy' in another inefficient process known as life with food-conversion rates of anywhere between 1.5 feed for 1 poultry, to up to 20 to 1 for cattle. Lastly while we have regeneration capacity in our feet when say running, when cycling downhill or breaking we regenerate nothing, whereas electric motors can have 20-40% electric regeneration efficiencies when going downhill or breaking. In short, electric bikes and likely small electric vehicles in general probably beat cycling in terms of energy. Of course this is a pretty narrow perspective. One can argue that solar panels and electric bicycles require massive investments which is an opportunity cost for other energy-efficient processes. One can argue that the cyclists fuelled by food will reduce their other activity (e.g. going to the gym) and thus don't expand any excess energy, or that most electric vehicles today wouldn't be powered by the sun, whereas the vast majority of food (excluding some greenhouses, hydroponics and pot installations) today is. But it's also pretty clear that powering the world with plants (excluding oil etc) doesn't make sense in the long run at significant scale.
biftek 11y ago
They are already using bike messengers in Manhattan (maybe elsewhere) for Amazon Now's 1 hour delivery. I'm guessing they just hire out to LazerShip or some other currier service, and give them Amazon jackets.
ajslater 11y ago
At Sidecar we're doing white label 40 minute delivery for a wide variety of merchants with a mix of cars, bikers and walkers. https://www.side.cr/under-the-hood-a-look-at-sidecars-on-demand-logistics-infrastructure/ https://www.side.cr/under-the-hood-a-look-at-sidecars-on-dem...

Avalaxy 11y ago

Aside from that it seems like a horrible waste of non-renewal energy source to let someone drive to an address just to deliver one package.

IkmoIkmo 11y ago
I wonder... we know two things, one is that an electric motors can get around 90%+ efficiency. The human body I can't recall exactly but if I remember correctly it's centered around 20% or so for most exercises. Two is that 1 m2 of a solar panel converts around 15-20% of insolation to electricity, whereas 1 m2 of random plants gets about ±0.5%, most crops around 2% and the top performer is sugarcane which is still at just 8%. Typical diet however would probably be 2% efficient crops, a lot of which is then wasted before it gets on your plate, not in the least due to a lot of agricultural output going towards animals who turn it into 'meat-energy' in another inefficient process known as life with food-conversion rates of anywhere between 1.5 feed for 1 poultry, to up to 20 to 1 for cattle. Lastly while we have regeneration capacity in our feet when say running, when cycling downhill or breaking we regenerate nothing, whereas electric motors can have 20-40% electric regeneration efficiencies when going downhill or breaking. In short, electric bikes and likely small electric vehicles in general probably beat cycling in terms of energy. Of course this is a pretty narrow perspective. One can argue that solar panels and electric bicycles require massive investments which is an opportunity cost for other energy-efficient processes. One can argue that the cyclists fuelled by food will reduce their other activity (e.g. going to the gym) and thus don't expand any excess energy, or that most electric vehicles today wouldn't be powered by the sun, whereas the vast majority of food (excluding some greenhouses, hydroponics and pot installations) today is. But it's also pretty clear that powering the world with plants (excluding oil etc) doesn't make sense in the long run at significant scale.

biftek 11y ago

They are already using bike messengers in Manhattan (maybe elsewhere) for Amazon Now's 1 hour delivery. I'm guessing they just hire out to LazerShip or some other currier service, and give them Amazon jackets.

ajslater 11y ago

At Sidecar we're doing white label 40 minute delivery for a wide variety of merchants with a mix of cars, bikers and walkers. https://www.side.cr/under-the-hood-a-look-at-sidecars-on-demand-logistics-infrastructure/ https://www.side.cr/under-the-hood-a-look-at-sidecars-on-dem...