5 ms·

That would cause change, but in the opposite direction. People would rally around judges and prosecutors and you'd see fewer people questioning the status quo.

by tsotha 11y ago

That would cause change, but in the opposite direction. People would rally around judges and prosecutors and you'd see fewer people questioning the status quo. It would be a disaster.

VLM 11y ago
Both proposals have been purely theoretical. I can provide three practical historical examples of turning it up to 11: 1) abortion clinic bombing changed nothing; if anything it helped raise funds (you'd almost think they were false flag operations? Is there anything that helped the pro choice cause more than the bombings?) 2) the War on drugs has ruined uncountable lives, certainly far more than drugs have ruined, none the less neither the fear of drugs or the more realistic fear of the war on drugs keeps people sober, business has always been booming. 3) the war on black men has gotten about 1/3 of them involved in the criminal justice system. The result? None, no change. They haven't become refugees, their culture has changed as little as possible under the circumstances, no serious rebellion... In those three examples taking normal level actions and turning them up to 11 has either been utterly ineffective or counterproductive. I'd have to say the tsotha theoretical model fits observed reality better, although I admit further research could find observations overturning that... although I don't expect it.
- mistermann 11y ago
  Those aren't bad analogies, but I wouldn't consider them good. 1) The public and perhaps even many scholars are split on abortion - I personally don't think there's a clear cut "correct" answer. 2) I wouldn't expect people to quit. Drugs are fun, most are relatively harmless, using them is not immoral, and you most likely won't get caught. 3) Similar to #2, and much of the issues here are a direct result of #2 Turning it up to 11 (great expression btw) to be effective should be used only when there is obvious wrongdoing, when innocent people are clearly being railroaded by people who either know the person is innocent, or made no effort to determine innocence (which, let's not forget, is the job they are being paid very handsomely to perform). I'm not sure if this particular case is a valid example example for turning it up to 11, but there are certainly plenty. I think this would be effective, and I believe there would be widespread public support with sufficient communication.
mistermann 11y ago
It could definitely be a disaster if it was indiscriminate and no reason was communicated.

by tsotha 11y ago

That would cause change, but in the opposite direction. People would rally around judges and prosecutors and you'd see fewer people questioning the status quo. It would be a disaster.

VLM 11y ago

Both proposals have been purely theoretical. I can provide three practical historical examples of turning it up to 11: 1) abortion clinic bombing changed nothing; if anything it helped raise funds (you'd almost think they were false flag operations? Is there anything that helped the pro choice cause more than the bombings?) 2) the War on drugs has ruined uncountable lives, certainly far more than drugs have ruined, none the less neither the fear of drugs or the more realistic fear of the war on drugs keeps people sober, business has always been booming. 3) the war on black men has gotten about 1/3 of them involved in the criminal justice system. The result? None, no change. They haven't become refugees, their culture has changed as little as possible under the circumstances, no serious rebellion... In those three examples taking normal level actions and turning them up to 11 has either been utterly ineffective or counterproductive. I'd have to say the tsotha theoretical model fits observed reality better, although I admit further research could find observations overturning that... although I don't expect it.

mistermann 11y ago
Those aren't bad analogies, but I wouldn't consider them good. 1) The public and perhaps even many scholars are split on abortion - I personally don't think there's a clear cut "correct" answer. 2) I wouldn't expect people to quit. Drugs are fun, most are relatively harmless, using them is not immoral, and you most likely won't get caught. 3) Similar to #2, and much of the issues here are a direct result of #2 Turning it up to 11 (great expression btw) to be effective should be used only when there is obvious wrongdoing, when innocent people are clearly being railroaded by people who either know the person is innocent, or made no effort to determine innocence (which, let's not forget, is the job they are being paid very handsomely to perform). I'm not sure if this particular case is a valid example example for turning it up to 11, but there are certainly plenty. I think this would be effective, and I believe there would be widespread public support with sufficient communication.

mistermann 11y ago

It could definitely be a disaster if it was indiscriminate and no reason was communicated.