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> ...if we burn all the oil we've already found... Plastics and inorganic fertilizers are two of the things we can make with oil. Both of these things are pret

> ...if we burn all the oil we've already found... Plastics and inorganic fertilizers are two of the things we can make with oil. Both of these things are pretty damn important. I suspect that -one day- burning so much of our oil supply just to produce electricity and locomotion will be regarded as a rather poor decision.

hugh4 11y ago
Oil is just big long gooey hydrocarbons that we can make by other means, if we have energy. I'm not too worried about it. If you're desperate you can always squeeze a peanut or scrape a duck.
- simoncion 11y ago
  > If you're desperate you can always squeeze a peanut or scrape a duck. That sounds terribly expensive. A 1,000% increase in the cost of plastics and lubricants won't be fun for anyone. > ...we can make by other means, if we have energy. Hopefully we gather together the political will and launch the anti-misinformation campaigns required to get some form of very-high-capacity non-fossil-fuel-based electricity generation system long before we need to seriously consider "scraping ducks" to get the hydrocarbons we require.
pjc50 11y ago
Fertilisers are made of the elements NPK, none of which are found in oil; natural gas is used to power the process and as an intermediate in ammonia production, but it's not intrinsic to the process. (Running out of mineable phosphates is a separate "peak" issue) http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2012/04/07/were-not-going-to-run-out-of-oil-based-fertilizer/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2012/04/07/were-not-...
- simoncion 11y ago
  Apologies. I was being unforgivably imprecise. I should have used the phrase "fossil fuel(s)" instead of the word oil. > ...natural gas is used to power the process and as an intermediate in ammonia production, but it's not intrinsic to the process. Maybe I'm misreading the Forbes [0] article, but it says: > We take methane (the majority part of natural gas) and use the CH4 to fix the nitrogen (N) from the air to make ammonia (NH3) which is then the precursor for the various fertilisers themselves like ammonium nitrate (NH4NO3) say. That sounds to me like natural gas is -currently- a vital part of the production process, as well as a power generation fuel. That's -naturally- not to say that a different methane source couldn't be used. [0] Unrelated: Forbes links are always fun. The first time I load an article, I am taken to a "welcome" page whose URL is not the article I intended to load. My back stack is also destroyed, so the back button doesn't work. If I visit the intended URL a second time, I get to read what it was that I wanted to read in the first place. Yaay.

hugh4 11y ago

Oil is just big long gooey hydrocarbons that we can make by other means, if we have energy. I'm not too worried about it. If you're desperate you can always squeeze a peanut or scrape a duck.

simoncion 11y ago
> If you're desperate you can always squeeze a peanut or scrape a duck. That sounds terribly expensive. A 1,000% increase in the cost of plastics and lubricants won't be fun for anyone. > ...we can make by other means, if we have energy. Hopefully we gather together the political will and launch the anti-misinformation campaigns required to get some form of very-high-capacity non-fossil-fuel-based electricity generation system long before we need to seriously consider "scraping ducks" to get the hydrocarbons we require.

pjc50 11y ago

Fertilisers are made of the elements NPK, none of which are found in oil; natural gas is used to power the process and as an intermediate in ammonia production, but it's not intrinsic to the process. (Running out of mineable phosphates is a separate "peak" issue) http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2012/04/07/were-not-going-to-run-out-of-oil-based-fertilizer/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2012/04/07/were-not-...

simoncion 11y ago
Apologies. I was being unforgivably imprecise. I should have used the phrase "fossil fuel(s)" instead of the word oil. > ...natural gas is used to power the process and as an intermediate in ammonia production, but it's not intrinsic to the process. Maybe I'm misreading the Forbes [0] article, but it says: > We take methane (the majority part of natural gas) and use the CH4 to fix the nitrogen (N) from the air to make ammonia (NH3) which is then the precursor for the various fertilisers themselves like ammonium nitrate (NH4NO3) say. That sounds to me like natural gas is -currently- a vital part of the production process, as well as a power generation fuel. That's -naturally- not to say that a different methane source couldn't be used. [0] Unrelated: Forbes links are always fun. The first time I load an article, I am taken to a "welcome" page whose URL is not the article I intended to load. My back stack is also destroyed, so the back button doesn't work. If I visit the intended URL a second time, I get to read what it was that I wanted to read in the first place. Yaay.