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Keep in mind that you're survey of examples is likely biased by what makes a good story... and journalists have become very good at figuring out which cases wil

by cbsmith 11y ago

Keep in mind that you're survey of examples is likely biased by what makes a good story... and journalists have become very good at figuring out which cases will make a good story. It's a problem that there is enough material to keep the stories coming, but let's not conclude that the stories we read about represent the bulk of the justice system's operations.

DubiousPusher 11y ago
Agreed. "Fixing criminal justice," is a vague if noble goal. I think it's pretty clear at this point however that the standard of evidence is too low. And out of the humility wrought by the awareness of our own fallibility, perhaps we should stray from punishments as final as death.
TillE 11y ago
The fact that the egregious examples exist is proof enough of the insanity and incompetence that's permitted by the justice system. The appeals processes seems too restrictive to allow for proper review in many cases. Just because a system has existed for a long time doesn't mean it's ideal in any way. The murder of Meredith Kercher is another prominent example in another country. All evidence pointed to one murderer, who was duly convicted. And then the state decided to spend years prosecuting two innocent people based on some odd behavior and not the slightest shred of credible physical evidence. They're just lucky they finally got a sane judge at the highest level.
- cbsmith 11y ago
  > The fact that the egregious examples exist is proof enough of the insanity and incompetence that's permitted by the justice system. It's more like proof of the law of large numbers. > The appeals processes seems too restrictive to allow for proper review in many cases. Appeals processes should be restrictive, otherwise the time and expense of the trial itself are essentially squandered. That said, I have no doubt that at least in some, and possibly many systems, it's over the line. > Just because a system has existed for a long time doesn't mean it's ideal in any way. I hope you didn't think I suggested anything to the contrary.
guelo 11y ago
Even if the awful cases are a tiny percentage of all cases (which I don't believe is the case considering how common plea bargain extortion is), it is still a huge problem that is quickly eroding confidence in the justice system.

by cbsmith 11y ago

DubiousPusher 11y ago

Agreed. "Fixing criminal justice," is a vague if noble goal. I think it's pretty clear at this point however that the standard of evidence is too low. And out of the humility wrought by the awareness of our own fallibility, perhaps we should stray from punishments as final as death.

TillE 11y ago

The fact that the egregious examples exist is proof enough of the insanity and incompetence that's permitted by the justice system. The appeals processes seems too restrictive to allow for proper review in many cases. Just because a system has existed for a long time doesn't mean it's ideal in any way. The murder of Meredith Kercher is another prominent example in another country. All evidence pointed to one murderer, who was duly convicted. And then the state decided to spend years prosecuting two innocent people based on some odd behavior and not the slightest shred of credible physical evidence. They're just lucky they finally got a sane judge at the highest level.

cbsmith 11y ago
> The fact that the egregious examples exist is proof enough of the insanity and incompetence that's permitted by the justice system. It's more like proof of the law of large numbers. > The appeals processes seems too restrictive to allow for proper review in many cases. Appeals processes should be restrictive, otherwise the time and expense of the trial itself are essentially squandered. That said, I have no doubt that at least in some, and possibly many systems, it's over the line. > Just because a system has existed for a long time doesn't mean it's ideal in any way. I hope you didn't think I suggested anything to the contrary.

guelo 11y ago

Even if the awful cases are a tiny percentage of all cases (which I don't believe is the case considering how common plea bargain extortion is), it is still a huge problem that is quickly eroding confidence in the justice system.