4 ms·

I'm not arguing that people allocate specific income to specific expenses, just that people need and deserve more income. I think Airbnb is well aware of the h

by sama 11y ago

I'm not arguing that people allocate specific income to specific expenses, just that people need and deserve more income. I think Airbnb is well aware of the housing issue and more than willing to work together on solutions.

kelnos 11y ago
Careful... "deserve" is a bit of a loaded term there. I don't think I'd say that people "deserve more income". Having said that, I think Airbnb is a fine way for people to earn some money making use of their existing spare housing. I may dislike the PR/marketing bullshit that is the term "sharing economy", but I'm pretty disappointed that this thread seems to be full of Airbnb bashing. While they may not be the ideal solution to SF's housing woes, it's pretty clear that they're not part of the problem... or if they are, it seems they're at least doing more good than bad.
justizin 11y ago
> I think Airbnb is well aware of the housing issue and more than willing to work together on solutions. I'm sorry, that's just not true, and Sam, I admire a lot of what you've said on a lot of issues, but I cannot believe that you are sincere in this article overall, unless you are just naive. Any property owner in San Francisco has always been able to go to the Planning Commission and request a conditional use permit to turn their home into a bed and breakfast, and as far as we can tell, no such request has ever been denied. Renters in San Francisco do not in almost any case I have ever heard of have the right to sublet our apartments, even to additional roommates, without the approval of our landlords, and with good reason. If a person has lived in San Francisco for some time, and loses their ability to earn enough to pay their rent, it is abusive and narcissistic for that person to believe that simply by having the keys to a place that already does not belong to them, they can - with no consideration for their neighbors - turn their home into a business. A hotel business, no less, which kind of foists upon them the responsibilities of travel guides, as we read in an article this morning. Now, as demand for housing in an area is shooting up, individual renters are leveraging that in a way that does not contribute to the cost of maintaining property, putting increased pressure on other tenants, and disallowing the landlord from actually satisfying that demand. All that aside, AirBnb knows what the fuck they are doing. I know at least one successful AirBnb host who has had AirBnb approach them and encourage them to rent up nearby apartments and turn them into new units! San Francisco housing activists have asked time and time again for AirBnb to open up data about how many hosts have multiple units, and who is renting when not in their unit, so that data may be used over time to guide regulation, but as is becoming a trend with YC companies, private executives and investors feel that they can do better city planning than people who have decades or perhaps their entire lives invested in doing so. Put up or shut the fuck up, sir.
- mildbow 11y ago
  "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it." -- Upton Sinclair iirc
  - cwilkes 11y ago
    Not sure who is downvoting you -- this quote is entirely appropriate.
- balls187 11y ago
  No need for ad hominem arguments.
  - justizin 11y ago
    How is going after the behavior of an organization after complimenting someone as an individual ad hominem?
    - balls187 11y ago
      > but I cannot believe that you are sincere in this article overall, unless you are just naive.
      - balls187 11y ago
        > but I cannot believe that you are sincere in this article overall, unless you are just naive. Rather than just point out specific issues with the merits of the argument, you implied he is either insincere, or naive.
- pkinsky 11y ago
  >...do better city planning than people who have decades or perhaps their entire lives invested in doing so. What exactly about the current state of SF makes you think the people doing city planning here are in any way competent?
- 11y ago
larrys 11y ago
"just that people need and deserve more income" You may be aware that there are people who specifically choose not to live in a high rent place such as San Francisco or Manhattan (as only two examples) because it is expensive and they can't afford it. And they know it and understand that is part of the "life is not fair" theme. Not everyone will make enough to rent or buy in those places and there is nothing new about this either. That it impacts startups is an entirely different issue. And startups are the reason the rent is so high obviously in San Francisco, right? Where I am located it's impossible to get anywhere near the quality of labor that I might get if I was located in San Francisco, NYC or really any large metropolitan area. Obviously I have made a choice (for many reasons) to be where I am (as have many others). Everyone makes choices. If you move to San Francisco to take a job you have to factor in the cost of housing when you make your decision to work there. As far as the legacy people who live there and are impacted in a negative way that is truly an unfortunate situation.
snappy173 11y ago
"that people need and deserve more income." for some, income is just a means to an end. airbnb isn't providing this extra income for free. it expects hosts to provide a service, which requires work, which requires time and energy. if that extra income is just offsetting the rise in housing costs, then quality of life is decreasing ...

by sama 11y ago

kelnos 11y ago

Careful... "deserve" is a bit of a loaded term there. I don't think I'd say that people "deserve more income". Having said that, I think Airbnb is a fine way for people to earn some money making use of their existing spare housing. I may dislike the PR/marketing bullshit that is the term "sharing economy", but I'm pretty disappointed that this thread seems to be full of Airbnb bashing. While they may not be the ideal solution to SF's housing woes, it's pretty clear that they're not part of the problem... or if they are, it seems they're at least doing more good than bad.

justizin 11y ago

> I think Airbnb is well aware of the housing issue and more than willing to work together on solutions. I'm sorry, that's just not true, and Sam, I admire a lot of what you've said on a lot of issues, but I cannot believe that you are sincere in this article overall, unless you are just naive. Any property owner in San Francisco has always been able to go to the Planning Commission and request a conditional use permit to turn their home into a bed and breakfast, and as far as we can tell, no such request has ever been denied. Renters in San Francisco do not in almost any case I have ever heard of have the right to sublet our apartments, even to additional roommates, without the approval of our landlords, and with good reason. If a person has lived in San Francisco for some time, and loses their ability to earn enough to pay their rent, it is abusive and narcissistic for that person to believe that simply by having the keys to a place that already does not belong to them, they can - with no consideration for their neighbors - turn their home into a business. A hotel business, no less, which kind of foists upon them the responsibilities of travel guides, as we read in an article this morning. Now, as demand for housing in an area is shooting up, individual renters are leveraging that in a way that does not contribute to the cost of maintaining property, putting increased pressure on other tenants, and disallowing the landlord from actually satisfying that demand. All that aside, AirBnb knows what the fuck they are doing. I know at least one successful AirBnb host who has had AirBnb approach them and encourage them to rent up nearby apartments and turn them into new units! San Francisco housing activists have asked time and time again for AirBnb to open up data about how many hosts have multiple units, and who is renting when not in their unit, so that data may be used over time to guide regulation, but as is becoming a trend with YC companies, private executives and investors feel that they can do better city planning than people who have decades or perhaps their entire lives invested in doing so. Put up or shut the fuck up, sir.

mildbow 11y ago
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it." -- Upton Sinclair iirc
- cwilkes 11y ago
  Not sure who is downvoting you -- this quote is entirely appropriate.
balls187 11y ago
No need for ad hominem arguments.
- justizin 11y ago
  How is going after the behavior of an organization after complimenting someone as an individual ad hominem?
  - balls187 11y ago
    > but I cannot believe that you are sincere in this article overall, unless you are just naive.
    - balls187 11y ago
      > but I cannot believe that you are sincere in this article overall, unless you are just naive. Rather than just point out specific issues with the merits of the argument, you implied he is either insincere, or naive.
pkinsky 11y ago
>...do better city planning than people who have decades or perhaps their entire lives invested in doing so. What exactly about the current state of SF makes you think the people doing city planning here are in any way competent?
11y ago

larrys 11y ago

"just that people need and deserve more income" You may be aware that there are people who specifically choose not to live in a high rent place such as San Francisco or Manhattan (as only two examples) because it is expensive and they can't afford it. And they know it and understand that is part of the "life is not fair" theme. Not everyone will make enough to rent or buy in those places and there is nothing new about this either. That it impacts startups is an entirely different issue. And startups are the reason the rent is so high obviously in San Francisco, right? Where I am located it's impossible to get anywhere near the quality of labor that I might get if I was located in San Francisco, NYC or really any large metropolitan area. Obviously I have made a choice (for many reasons) to be where I am (as have many others). Everyone makes choices. If you move to San Francisco to take a job you have to factor in the cost of housing when you make your decision to work there. As far as the legacy people who live there and are impacted in a negative way that is truly an unfortunate situation.

snappy173 11y ago

"that people need and deserve more income." for some, income is just a means to an end. airbnb isn't providing this extra income for free. it expects hosts to provide a service, which requires work, which requires time and energy. if that extra income is just offsetting the rise in housing costs, then quality of life is decreasing ...