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This is the epiphenomenal position, that consciousness is just along for the ride. However, it strongly requires that consciousness be not detrimental (at leas
by KingMob 11y ago
This is the epiphenomenal position, that consciousness is just along for the ride.
However, it strongly requires that consciousness be not detrimental (at least not overall), because otherwise, evolution probably would have weeded it out.
The novel Blindsight kind of suggests that humans are a local evolutionary maxima, that we achieved mastery of our planet due to our other talents, despite being burdened with consciousness. But again, this runs afoul of evolutionary fitness. Even if animals lacking consciousness couldn't surmount our other abilities, if a mutant human arose without consciousness, presumably it would have an advantage over other humans, and its genes would spread throughout the populace.
The book is really interesting, but having studied this for 7 years of my life, there's no way the author is correct. It's much more likely that other animals experience conscious awareness too. We don't know for sure, and we don't know where to draw the line (fish, insects, aplysia, bacteria?), but it seems reasonable to believe higher mammals have awareness (which is distinct from language, tool use, self-reflection, Theory of Mind, etc).
- redacted 11y ago> if a mutant human arose without consciousness, presumably it would have an advantage over other humans The book actually does address this. ROT13 to avoid spoilers: Vg vf fgebatyl fhttrfgrq gung gur inzcverf bs gur abiry ynpx pbafpvbhfarff, juvpu tnir gurz n fvtavsvpnag nqinagntr bire 'onfryvar' uhznaf gung gurl uhagrq.
- KingMob 11y agoIt's been a few years since I read it, so I didn't recall that. Is it stated or just implied? Still, I remain unconvinced of the author's depictions of a lack of consciousness. The problem is the "philosophical zombie". It looks and acts, to all accounts, like a normal human, but has no internal experience. Since I can't even prove anybody else has experience (despite acting a lot like me), what's the basis for different behavior just because an organism lacks consciousness? I found it intriguing but unlikely, based on evolutionary fitness.
- mirimir 11y agoYour selection arguments make sense to me. We are conscious, so consciousness must increase fitness. Maybe impulse control is a key aspect of it. And thinking of Hofstadter, maybe it's just the top of the self-referential stack.
- KingMob 11y agoImpulse control could be part of it, but it's not clear that that requires consciousness, either :) We know that perceptual awareness has some connection to biology (sleep, seizures, drugs, etc), so to the extent that consciousness requires energy, it has to justify its caloric expenditure.
- mirimir 11y agoLrf. Ubjrire, ng gur fgneg bs Rpubcenkvn, V trg gung inzcverf fvzhygnarbhfyl eha frireny ernyvgvrf. Ohg vg'f abg lrg pyrne gb zr jurgure gurl'er nygreangr fpranevbf, whfg sbe nzhfrzrag, be jungrire.