3 ms·

The worst part of this, IMHO, is that the EPA's motives are just stupid here. First, they can already regulate and stop projects that actually distribute ECU c

The worst part of this, IMHO, is that the EPA's motives are just stupid here. First, they can already regulate and stop projects that actually distribute ECU changes that are harmful. They do not need the DMCA when they can fine people heavily. If they fine a few people 100k, it's enough of a deterrent. Even if everyone just runs these projects out of europe, you make examples of a few users in the US, and then the number of people who do it in practice is so low as to be pointless. Second, The likelihood that anyone has the time and energy to go and build ECU software and flash it into their car is low. I may bop around and read the source code and notice cheating, mind you, but the barrier to entry on actually building anything and getting it into my car is high (and I have a car where i have near-complete control of flashing components)

BorgHunter 11y ago
> Second, The likihood that anyone has the time and energy to go and build ECU software and flash it into their car is low. I don't think this is true. There are plenty of enthusiasts who already do exactly this kind of thing. A friend of mine had an aftermarket ECU installed in his Mustang a few years ago. There's also the (idiotic) phenomenon of rolling coal[0], which also requires at minimum altering some engine tuning parameters in real time. Hackers abound in all walks of life, and this includes auto enthusiasts. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_coal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_coal
- DannyBee 11y ago
  Altering parameters i can do easily already, with the right cables. DMCA does nothing to prevent this. and as mentioned, you can just replace the ECU if you really want. But i think both of these are significantly easier, and very different, than flashing new software onto the ECU. :)
  - BorgHunter 11y ago
    My point was simply never to underestimate the ingenuity of clever people working on something cool. If something cool is possible, then no matter how impractical there's probably someone out there interested and dedicated enough to make it work.
    - mikeash 11y ago
      It's a numbers game. There are always going to be some people who do this, but how many? If 10% of people are hacking their car to violate emissions, that's a problem. If it's one in ten thousand, that's pretty much ignorable. The ultimate goal with emissions control is merely to keep the total down. If a few cars are blowing past the limits it doesn't really affect that.

BorgHunter 11y ago

> Second, The likihood that anyone has the time and energy to go and build ECU software and flash it into their car is low. I don't think this is true. There are plenty of enthusiasts who already do exactly this kind of thing. A friend of mine had an aftermarket ECU installed in his Mustang a few years ago. There's also the (idiotic) phenomenon of rolling coal[0], which also requires at minimum altering some engine tuning parameters in real time. Hackers abound in all walks of life, and this includes auto enthusiasts. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_coal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_coal

DannyBee 11y ago
Altering parameters i can do easily already, with the right cables. DMCA does nothing to prevent this. and as mentioned, you can just replace the ECU if you really want. But i think both of these are significantly easier, and very different, than flashing new software onto the ECU. :)
- BorgHunter 11y ago
  My point was simply never to underestimate the ingenuity of clever people working on something cool. If something cool is possible, then no matter how impractical there's probably someone out there interested and dedicated enough to make it work.
  - mikeash 11y ago
    It's a numbers game. There are always going to be some people who do this, but how many? If 10% of people are hacking their car to violate emissions, that's a problem. If it's one in ten thousand, that's pretty much ignorable. The ultimate goal with emissions control is merely to keep the total down. If a few cars are blowing past the limits it doesn't really affect that.