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Does JetBrains have any way to make money off of Kotlin? Most people use the free version of IDEA nowadays. Do they have consulting services for Kotlin? Seems e

by dlandis 11y ago

Does JetBrains have any way to make money off of Kotlin? Most people use the free version of IDEA nowadays. Do they have consulting services for Kotlin? Seems especially strange since they seem to be admitting it will be irrelevant once Java 8/9 get on to Android.

ryandvm 11y ago
I'm no longer holding out hope that Java 8/9 will ever get to Android. I think it's more likely that we'll see Go, Dart, JavaScript, or even Swift become a first-class development option on Android. Swift would be especially nice. How fantastic it would be to be able to use the same language to target the two most popular mobile platforms? Of course Swift is also probably the least likely since Google is still smarting from the Oracle/Java debacle. The last thing they need is another decade-long copyright infringement fight with the richest company in the world...
- sangnoir 11y ago
  > I'm no longer holding out hope that Java 8/9 will ever get to Android. That would be a little foolhardy on Google's part, don't you think? Considering the ongoing 'API copyright' wrangle that is Oracle v. Google
  - ryandvm 11y ago
    Not really. Their fight with Oracle would be entirely justified to avoid paying the largest copyright damages award in the history of software.
    - drzaiusapelord 11y ago
      This. Google is in a very ugly place with Oracle right now. Being able to jump ship might save them, but I'm not sure if Kotlin avoids all the legal troubles here. I do believe that Google will continue to lose as the history of the East Texas juries for IP is almost always gifting the patent/copyright holder. I wish our system had some kind of venue randomizer. Its clear that this district is a moneymaker for IP holders.
      - pjmlp 11y ago
        Google could have avoided all of this if they hadn't try to screw Sun. So now we have J++ on Android.
        dragonwriter 11y ago
        > Google could have avoided all of this if they hadn't try to screw Sun. Or, conversely, if they'd bought Sun instead of letting Oracle do so, stripped interesting IP (particularly, Java), and sold the rest back off (see, e.g., what they did with Motorola Mobility.)
        pjmlp 11y ago
        Yes, that might have been a better solution. But given Dart and Go I am not sure if it would have been a good idea in what concerns language evolution.
    - sangnoir 11y ago
      I don't quite follow your argument (or if we're disagreeing). However, if they are allegedly infringing on version 6 of Java, how would follow-up infringements of versions 7 and 8 not be foolhardy? They are better off staying on Java 6 and eventually leaving Java altogether or only updating Java versions upon prevailing in Court (which might take a long while, appeals considered)
- on_and_off 11y ago
  >I'm no longer holding out hope that Java 8/9 will ever get to Android. If you take a look at the public commit on the AOSP jack & jill repo, you can see that google is working on Java 8 integration : https://android-review.googlesource.com/#/c/150214/2/jack-tests/src/com/android/jack/test/toolchain/JackBasedToolchain.java https://android-review.googlesource.com/#/c/150214/2/jack-te... It is very surprising though, I would have expected Google to explore other options due to the hard back compatibility story and with Oracle ready to push this legal battle as far as possible. As far as Swift on Android ? From a developer point of view, there would probably be far worse choices (one could argue that Kotlin would be a better choice, if only because of Java 6 as a target) but yeah even without considering the legal aspect, I doubt that Google would be ready to use a language managed by its direct competitor.
spuz 11y ago
A lot JetBrains products use Kotlin. It makes them money because it reduces errors in their own products.
- dlandis 11y ago
  Hmm, inventing a whole new language doesn't seem like the best way to increase your quality. There are already a lot of outstanding languages nowadays.
hhariri 11y ago
Where has JetBrains claimed that Kotlin is going to become irrelevant once Java 8/9 get on Android? Kotlin was and is a multi-purpose language targeting not only Android but other applications and platforms such as server-side, web or even client-side.

by dlandis 11y ago

ryandvm 11y ago

I'm no longer holding out hope that Java 8/9 will ever get to Android. I think it's more likely that we'll see Go, Dart, JavaScript, or even Swift become a first-class development option on Android. Swift would be especially nice. How fantastic it would be to be able to use the same language to target the two most popular mobile platforms? Of course Swift is also probably the least likely since Google is still smarting from the Oracle/Java debacle. The last thing they need is another decade-long copyright infringement fight with the richest company in the world...

sangnoir 11y ago
> I'm no longer holding out hope that Java 8/9 will ever get to Android. That would be a little foolhardy on Google's part, don't you think? Considering the ongoing 'API copyright' wrangle that is Oracle v. Google
- ryandvm 11y ago
  Not really. Their fight with Oracle would be entirely justified to avoid paying the largest copyright damages award in the history of software.
  - drzaiusapelord 11y ago
    This. Google is in a very ugly place with Oracle right now. Being able to jump ship might save them, but I'm not sure if Kotlin avoids all the legal troubles here. I do believe that Google will continue to lose as the history of the East Texas juries for IP is almost always gifting the patent/copyright holder. I wish our system had some kind of venue randomizer. Its clear that this district is a moneymaker for IP holders.
    - pjmlp 11y ago
      Google could have avoided all of this if they hadn't try to screw Sun. So now we have J++ on Android.
      - dragonwriter 11y ago
        > Google could have avoided all of this if they hadn't try to screw Sun. Or, conversely, if they'd bought Sun instead of letting Oracle do so, stripped interesting IP (particularly, Java), and sold the rest back off (see, e.g., what they did with Motorola Mobility.)
        pjmlp 11y ago
        Yes, that might have been a better solution. But given Dart and Go I am not sure if it would have been a good idea in what concerns language evolution.
  - sangnoir 11y ago
    I don't quite follow your argument (or if we're disagreeing). However, if they are allegedly infringing on version 6 of Java, how would follow-up infringements of versions 7 and 8 not be foolhardy? They are better off staying on Java 6 and eventually leaving Java altogether or only updating Java versions upon prevailing in Court (which might take a long while, appeals considered)
on_and_off 11y ago
>I'm no longer holding out hope that Java 8/9 will ever get to Android. If you take a look at the public commit on the AOSP jack & jill repo, you can see that google is working on Java 8 integration : https://android-review.googlesource.com/#/c/150214/2/jack-tests/src/com/android/jack/test/toolchain/JackBasedToolchain.java https://android-review.googlesource.com/#/c/150214/2/jack-te... It is very surprising though, I would have expected Google to explore other options due to the hard back compatibility story and with Oracle ready to push this legal battle as far as possible. As far as Swift on Android ? From a developer point of view, there would probably be far worse choices (one could argue that Kotlin would be a better choice, if only because of Java 6 as a target) but yeah even without considering the legal aspect, I doubt that Google would be ready to use a language managed by its direct competitor.

spuz 11y ago

A lot JetBrains products use Kotlin. It makes them money because it reduces errors in their own products.

dlandis 11y ago
Hmm, inventing a whole new language doesn't seem like the best way to increase your quality. There are already a lot of outstanding languages nowadays.

hhariri 11y ago

Where has JetBrains claimed that Kotlin is going to become irrelevant once Java 8/9 get on Android? Kotlin was and is a multi-purpose language targeting not only Android but other applications and platforms such as server-side, web or even client-side.