You don't know me. How could you possibly know if I am a real man or not? Ditto for the attention (or lack thereof) I get from women. Of course if you want to a

You don't know me. How could you possibly know if I am a real man or not? Ditto for the attention (or lack thereof) I get from women. Of course if you want to argue that any women that happens to fancy me is not real by definition, you have shown already the quality of your logic. And, speaking of general principles. Take a look to the template-argument: "Because <group X> are inherently different of <group Y>, they get treated differently and that's the way it is. Therefore, any member of <group X> that complains about the status quo only makes things worse". Whenever you see that, you can be pretty sure the people who floated that idea in the first place, must be taking unfair advantage of group X (though not necessarily has to belong to group Y). So, a counter argument can be made that every member of group X that believes in such argument is brainwashed and acting against the interest of group X in general. Speaking of gender roles, there was a time still on living memory, when wife-beating was socially acceptable. I know for a fact, because I have spoken with a number of old folks, that even if those times, there were plenty of decent guys who would never hurt their wives, but when they learned of a jackass kicking the crap out of his wife, they would not move a finger unless (maybe) if it was clear that her life was in imminent danger. Now, the sad thing about that history was not that there were jack-asses half a century ago (there are plenty of those today, too), but that the victims were shooed down by society at large. And the really sad thing is that the individuals doing the enforcing and keeping the beated wives quiet were all other women applying the logic of "women that complain about their husband's methods of discipline make matters worse."