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> I recall watching cashiers operating similar ones at various stores One of which was probably Elkjøp, the Dixons in the North? They have a text based system

> I recall watching cashiers operating similar ones at various stores One of which was probably Elkjøp, the Dixons in the North? They have a text based system in-store for looking up stock. I occasionally work on a product that is similar to Elkjøp's and also for retail, and although we have a web version of the text based legacy system many users still use the text-based system because it is fast, has no pictures to wait on and all major functionality is mapped to F-keys. The F-keys are a major boost for users, even on the web-based port (same back end (COBOL) ported frontend to GUI). When we get new employees they almost always suggest remapping shortcuts from function keys to ctrl-shift-something, which is a stupid idea for 4 reasons: 1. you now have a new key combination to learn 2. the new combination requires pressing more keys that just a single F-key 3. shortcuts in the browser are predefined and now we have to override them (as we do for F1=help, but less often) 4. the function keys are there for exacltly the reason we use them I completely understand why doctors and others, like in retail, want to continue using text based systems. No CSS painting, no complicated layouts, no ditractons. On the down side: backend in COBOL in 2015 - you limit your pool of available talent.

SmellyGeekBoy 11y ago
Funny you should mention Dixons. Back when I was a university student I worked part time at a Currys store (part of the Dixons group) here in the UK during the transition from a keyboard-driven SCO system (I don't recall its name) to a touchscreen Windows system called "Eclipse". We were one of the few smaller stores that got to trial it first. Absolutely horrendous. Typical transactions took 10x as long, the system froze up regularly, a load of functionality was missing. We had all muscle-memoried all the common tasks and could navigate to most of them within a couple of seconds on the old system, all gone with Eclipse. We were promised they were just teething troubles and would all be fixed for the final rollout. Of course, they weren't and Eclipse was universally despised within the Group stores. Dixons Group ran into massive financial trouble shortly afterwards, although no word either way on whether the new till / stock control system was a factor. Amazing how it all comes flooding back! It still makes me shudder when I go into a Dixons Group store and see Eclipse still in use. I almost break out into a cold sweat.
- toothbrush 11y ago
  I am amazed that people don't more universally recognise the advantage of a tactile (== physical buttons) interface... Here where i shop the cashiers also have a touch interface, and they have to keep their arms practically horizontal at chest-height most of the day, which (i'm not an ergonomics expert, but) must be much more tiring than keying stuff in on a flat keyboard. Also, they have to look and aim and peck, whereas a "traditional" (i'm aghast that a real keyboard could fall into a category called traditional, what's the world coming to?) keyboards allow much surer and faster (and sometimes blind) entry... EDIT clarification
  - SmellyGeekBoy 11y ago
    Agreed, it was the blind entry where all the time was saved. Even the 60+ year old part timer in our store had most of the functions memorised and complained when the new system launched. I forget the exact sequence (it's been about 10 years) but the faster typers among us could walk up to a terminal, type in their user ID and password, hit e.g. F2 F6 F1 F7 to go to the sales screen and scan the first item within about 3 seconds, even before the screen had caught up, and it would work flawlessly every time. It took longer than that just to log in to the new system!
  - digi_owl 11y ago
    Touch screens for cashiers seem to be used for product flexibility reasons. Meaning that chains can add/remove products, or categories, easily. As for the ergonomics issue, i think that is known as "gorilla arm". My personal take there is that screens for input and screens for output should be put at very different orientations. A input screen really belong at a near flat angle, much like with a keyboard. Also, i wonder if the resurgence of pressure sensitivity (See Apple's force/3D touch as an example) will make for some change in this. Especially if one combine it with some kind of tech that can give the screen software controlled textures.
    - kagamine 11y ago
      Touch screens in retail till systems (POS) are used because we can rewrite the software from scratch and deliver on the same hardware. We can add a button for 10% discount next to teh 5% discount button and just have it appear on the screen after the next release, and only in stores 1 to 5 & 7, not 6 8, & 9. You can also do stuff like add a button to open the browser and carry out tasks on a completely different service not entirely related to POS. Flexibility is definately the reason. Having to upgrade keyboards with physical key-caps is a nightmare. You have to send an actual person (a human!) out to do upgrades. Intersting point about controleld textures, any idea how you can see that being used in a shop POS? With only a minute's thought the first thing I came up with was allowing blind people to work retail ... everything is automated now anyway, you don't even hand cash to a human, you just stick it in a hole.

SmellyGeekBoy 11y ago

Funny you should mention Dixons. Back when I was a university student I worked part time at a Currys store (part of the Dixons group) here in the UK during the transition from a keyboard-driven SCO system (I don't recall its name) to a touchscreen Windows system called "Eclipse". We were one of the few smaller stores that got to trial it first. Absolutely horrendous. Typical transactions took 10x as long, the system froze up regularly, a load of functionality was missing. We had all muscle-memoried all the common tasks and could navigate to most of them within a couple of seconds on the old system, all gone with Eclipse. We were promised they were just teething troubles and would all be fixed for the final rollout. Of course, they weren't and Eclipse was universally despised within the Group stores. Dixons Group ran into massive financial trouble shortly afterwards, although no word either way on whether the new till / stock control system was a factor. Amazing how it all comes flooding back! It still makes me shudder when I go into a Dixons Group store and see Eclipse still in use. I almost break out into a cold sweat.

toothbrush 11y ago
I am amazed that people don't more universally recognise the advantage of a tactile (== physical buttons) interface... Here where i shop the cashiers also have a touch interface, and they have to keep their arms practically horizontal at chest-height most of the day, which (i'm not an ergonomics expert, but) must be much more tiring than keying stuff in on a flat keyboard. Also, they have to look and aim and peck, whereas a "traditional" (i'm aghast that a real keyboard could fall into a category called traditional, what's the world coming to?) keyboards allow much surer and faster (and sometimes blind) entry... EDIT clarification
- SmellyGeekBoy 11y ago
  Agreed, it was the blind entry where all the time was saved. Even the 60+ year old part timer in our store had most of the functions memorised and complained when the new system launched. I forget the exact sequence (it's been about 10 years) but the faster typers among us could walk up to a terminal, type in their user ID and password, hit e.g. F2 F6 F1 F7 to go to the sales screen and scan the first item within about 3 seconds, even before the screen had caught up, and it would work flawlessly every time. It took longer than that just to log in to the new system!
- digi_owl 11y ago
  Touch screens for cashiers seem to be used for product flexibility reasons. Meaning that chains can add/remove products, or categories, easily. As for the ergonomics issue, i think that is known as "gorilla arm". My personal take there is that screens for input and screens for output should be put at very different orientations. A input screen really belong at a near flat angle, much like with a keyboard. Also, i wonder if the resurgence of pressure sensitivity (See Apple's force/3D touch as an example) will make for some change in this. Especially if one combine it with some kind of tech that can give the screen software controlled textures.
  - kagamine 11y ago
    Touch screens in retail till systems (POS) are used because we can rewrite the software from scratch and deliver on the same hardware. We can add a button for 10% discount next to teh 5% discount button and just have it appear on the screen after the next release, and only in stores 1 to 5 & 7, not 6 8, & 9. You can also do stuff like add a button to open the browser and carry out tasks on a completely different service not entirely related to POS. Flexibility is definately the reason. Having to upgrade keyboards with physical key-caps is a nightmare. You have to send an actual person (a human!) out to do upgrades. Intersting point about controleld textures, any idea how you can see that being used in a shop POS? With only a minute's thought the first thing I came up with was allowing blind people to work retail ... everything is automated now anyway, you don't even hand cash to a human, you just stick it in a hole.