8 ms·

Facebook Ads Are All-Knowing, Unblockable, and in Everyone’s Phone

59 points by tim_sw 11y ago

pmlnr 11y ago
Wrong. No FB app, adaway + ublock + pale moon.
- y0ghur7_xxx 11y ago
  Why adaway + ublock? Are those not redundant if you don't have the FB app?
  - pmlnr 11y ago
    No always, unfortunately. Adaway is ip based while ublock is regex based, achieving different end results.
- raverbashing 11y ago
  I use Fb but the Fb app is a disgrace, and not only because of privacy reasons It usually shows me what's happening last week instead of the latest posts
  - forgottenpass 11y ago
    the Fb app is a disgrace, and not only because of privacy reasons Having it installed also kills your battery life. Probably a knock-on effect from the privacy invasion (but at least I have a reason not to use facebook that doesn't weird out normies).
thewarrior 11y ago
Just browse FB in safari with an ad blocker ?
37prime 11y ago
One word comment: F$c$book
onion2k 11y ago
What people don't seem to have considered is whether or not unblockable ads in FB's app would be enough to make users who install ad blocking abandon FB. There's a tacit assumption that FB is more important to users than blocking ads, but until that's been tested I think we ought to remain skeptical whether such an assumption is correct. I think it's reasonable to think that someone who pays money not to see ads would be willing to leave FB if their app fails to respect that wish, and FB might well allow blocking to avoid any sort of cascading network effect a core group of users leaving might have.
- ousta 11y ago
  answer is simple to me. I deleted facebook a while ago when I saw the targeted ads targeting a bit too well and Im pretty sure many people will remove FB the more FB is becoming relevant as a business
  - rm_-rf_slash 11y ago
    I agree. Every time I go on I feel like I'm signing another waiver for Facebook's social experiments. I hardly go on anymore, except to message friends to call by phone or Skype instead.
- pjc50 11y ago
  .. or at least uninstall the app and switch to the website. In any case, the same dynamic applies as on the web: people aren't very motivated by privacy when installing ad-blockers, but visual intrusiveness, annoyingness, offence and exploitativeness will push people over the edge into looking for a solution.
  - vjoshi 11y ago
    Agreed, I switched to using the browser and now that's to in-cognito mode also On doing so, a few friends followed . Whilst privacy intrusion does irritate me, completely correct that visual instrusiveness as you put it, especially adds appearing very close to where I'm trying to click and then I end up clicking on them. I did use adblocker for a while but it wasn't 100% affective hence the switch over
drdaeman 11y ago
No idea about how things are on iOS, but on Android there is Xposed with MinMinGuard that does the job of removing in-app ads really well. Not absolutely perfect (some apps may crash in rare cases, but they're really rare), but at least on par with in-browser ad blocking. Or, given than there aren't too many ad libraries (way less than web-based ad networks), maybe even better.
- soylentcola 11y ago
  There's also AdAway for more "traditional" system-wide ad blocking via hosts file or applications like "Tinfoil Hat" which opens the mobile Facebook site in a sandboxed wrapper so you are essentially able to view the site without using their dedicated app or needing to open an incognito tab in Chrome or Firefox before visiting the mobile site. Ads and tracking aside, it's worth it even if just for the lowered system resource usage (my battery life improved by a decent margin even though I still check out Facebook every 1-3 days on my phone).
jrs235 11y ago
I have as few phone apps as possible. Undesired ads and asking for waaaaaay too much access to my phones data and features, no thanks I'll just use my browser and view your page. I'm sure many in the HN crowd practice similar behaviors however for the majority of people I'd assume this article holds more weight.
unclebucknasty 11y ago
FB continues to promote the self-serving fallacy that users really, really want ads. According to FB, users just desparately want those ads to be highly targeted and relevant. And, that's awesome, because it just happens to correspond exactly with what advertisers want. Most amazing is that advertisers continue to believe it. Testament to the power of desparation and wishful thinking.
- magic_man 11y ago
  No one really wants ads, but people do want facebook for free.
  - ams6110 11y ago
    In other words, they only want facebook because it's free?
    - Spivak 11y ago
      If Facebook charged money to the end user it would be immediately abandoned. It's weird that such a large service has such a low value to users. Most other huge free services could charge end users and get away with it but FBs value is tied to the fact that it's free and accessible by anyone.
  - unclebucknasty 11y ago
    Of course. But, that's not exactly the pitch they sell to their advertisers is it?
- bryanrasmussen 11y ago
  actually I want ads that are really relevant. I sometimes get them in Gmail, most of the time not though. Don't like or use Facebook. I remember I had a talk with a coworker once and we talked about if the ad was good enough to give you what you really wanted to buy when you searched and he thought it should be the first result, which I don't agree with because of course what is most helpful to me at some point might not be what I want to buy in relation to the search but something else. But definitely the thing I want to buy should be presented to me when I want to buy it so that I can buy it with the least amount of fuss. But unfortunately that is not what I get.
newscracker 11y ago
Isn't it an exaggeration to say the ads are unblockable even on apps on phones? The apps generally do have more control on what's shown and what's not. To start, couldn't the ads be filtered and masked from one's router or on a (home) proxy server that one uses? The apps could be written such that they detect if an ad is being replaced with empty content, but I don't think the apps are there yet. On this topic, what are the latest alternatives available for routers/proxy servers that are as good as uBlock Origin (or ABE) on the desktop (sharing the same popular block lists)?
snorrah 11y ago
All that talent at Facebook, and they use it to come up with creepier and more invasive ways of ad targeting. I could not help laughing at the quote about it being for "the greater good". Hot Fuzz flashbacks ahoy.
- gkanai 11y ago
  The same can be said about Google, no?
  - eru 11y ago
    We also make self-driving cars, to keep our conscious clean.
    - eevilspock 11y ago
      It's nice to know that some Google employees are resistant to cognitive dissonance. I remember reading somewhere that there is a (underground?) group within Google dissatisfied with the dominance of advertising at the company, both in business and product decisions.
      - eru 11y ago
        Advertising is a brilliant business to be in for Google, and the main cash cow. Nothing wrong with success. The ads are paying my salary indirectly. (If all ads were like Google ads, I wouldn't have bothered installing an ad-blocker in the first place.) > I remember reading somewhere that there is a (underground?) group within Google dissatisfied with the dominance of advertising at the company, both in business and product decisions. We have very vocal employees. You can find people complaining about everything. (Including the lack of M&Ms in some micro kitchens.) I am sure there are also people dissatisfied with ads. If you want to hear me complain, ask me about the choice of programming languages we are using. Or about open plan offices. Still the best run company I've worked for.
    - krapp 11y ago
      As if the self-driving cars won't be used for data-mining and analytics as well. I fully expect that every time I get into one it will be analyzing my eye and iris movement to derive my subconscious emotional responses to the businesses the car drives past or some similar creepy shit.
mrbig4545 11y ago
They're not in my phone, I don't use facebook on it.
skrebbel 11y ago
What a spammy title. The ads are only "in your phone" if you use a Facebook app. Breaking news! Ad-powered app shows ads in its app! Does anyone know whether Facebook also tracks you into and out of WhatsApp, by the way?
- martinko 11y ago
  > Does anyone know whether Facebook also tracks you into and out of WhatsApp, by the way? It most certainly does. I have contacts in WhatsApp that I have no other contact with (nor do they with me, dont know my name etc.), yet after the first time I chat with them on WhatsApp, they are in my recommended friends on facebook. Pretty infuriating.
  - degenerate 11y ago
    $19B well spent... ha
  - drdaeman 11y ago
    Does both WhatsApp and Facebook use (and were actually allowed to use) phone's built-in contact/address book subsystem? Honest question, I don't use either app, so no idea. Just thought this could be a possible that WA had created a contact in the system-wide address book and FB saw it.
    - martinko 11y ago
      I have other people in my phone contacts that Ive never communicated with on facebook and I have never been suggested to be friends with them. So Im doubtful.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
cognivore 11y ago
Um, not if you don't use Facebook?
rndmind 11y ago
Not for people that refuse to use it.

59 points by tim_sw 11y ago

pmlnr 11y ago

Wrong. No FB app, adaway + ublock + pale moon.

y0ghur7_xxx 11y ago
Why adaway + ublock? Are those not redundant if you don't have the FB app?
- pmlnr 11y ago
  No always, unfortunately. Adaway is ip based while ublock is regex based, achieving different end results.
raverbashing 11y ago
I use Fb but the Fb app is a disgrace, and not only because of privacy reasons It usually shows me what's happening last week instead of the latest posts
- forgottenpass 11y ago
  the Fb app is a disgrace, and not only because of privacy reasons Having it installed also kills your battery life. Probably a knock-on effect from the privacy invasion (but at least I have a reason not to use facebook that doesn't weird out normies).

thewarrior 11y ago

Just browse FB in safari with an ad blocker ?

37prime 11y ago

One word comment: F$c$book

onion2k 11y ago

What people don't seem to have considered is whether or not unblockable ads in FB's app would be enough to make users who install ad blocking abandon FB. There's a tacit assumption that FB is more important to users than blocking ads, but until that's been tested I think we ought to remain skeptical whether such an assumption is correct. I think it's reasonable to think that someone who pays money not to see ads would be willing to leave FB if their app fails to respect that wish, and FB might well allow blocking to avoid any sort of cascading network effect a core group of users leaving might have.

ousta 11y ago
answer is simple to me. I deleted facebook a while ago when I saw the targeted ads targeting a bit too well and Im pretty sure many people will remove FB the more FB is becoming relevant as a business
- rm_-rf_slash 11y ago
  I agree. Every time I go on I feel like I'm signing another waiver for Facebook's social experiments. I hardly go on anymore, except to message friends to call by phone or Skype instead.
pjc50 11y ago
.. or at least uninstall the app and switch to the website. In any case, the same dynamic applies as on the web: people aren't very motivated by privacy when installing ad-blockers, but visual intrusiveness, annoyingness, offence and exploitativeness will push people over the edge into looking for a solution.
- vjoshi 11y ago
  Agreed, I switched to using the browser and now that's to in-cognito mode also On doing so, a few friends followed . Whilst privacy intrusion does irritate me, completely correct that visual instrusiveness as you put it, especially adds appearing very close to where I'm trying to click and then I end up clicking on them. I did use adblocker for a while but it wasn't 100% affective hence the switch over

drdaeman 11y ago

No idea about how things are on iOS, but on Android there is Xposed with MinMinGuard that does the job of removing in-app ads really well. Not absolutely perfect (some apps may crash in rare cases, but they're really rare), but at least on par with in-browser ad blocking. Or, given than there aren't too many ad libraries (way less than web-based ad networks), maybe even better.

soylentcola 11y ago
There's also AdAway for more "traditional" system-wide ad blocking via hosts file or applications like "Tinfoil Hat" which opens the mobile Facebook site in a sandboxed wrapper so you are essentially able to view the site without using their dedicated app or needing to open an incognito tab in Chrome or Firefox before visiting the mobile site. Ads and tracking aside, it's worth it even if just for the lowered system resource usage (my battery life improved by a decent margin even though I still check out Facebook every 1-3 days on my phone).

jrs235 11y ago

I have as few phone apps as possible. Undesired ads and asking for waaaaaay too much access to my phones data and features, no thanks I'll just use my browser and view your page. I'm sure many in the HN crowd practice similar behaviors however for the majority of people I'd assume this article holds more weight.

unclebucknasty 11y ago

FB continues to promote the self-serving fallacy that users really, really want ads. According to FB, users just desparately want those ads to be highly targeted and relevant. And, that's awesome, because it just happens to correspond exactly with what advertisers want. Most amazing is that advertisers continue to believe it. Testament to the power of desparation and wishful thinking.

magic_man 11y ago
No one really wants ads, but people do want facebook for free.
- ams6110 11y ago
  In other words, they only want facebook because it's free?
  - Spivak 11y ago
    If Facebook charged money to the end user it would be immediately abandoned. It's weird that such a large service has such a low value to users. Most other huge free services could charge end users and get away with it but FBs value is tied to the fact that it's free and accessible by anyone.
- unclebucknasty 11y ago
  Of course. But, that's not exactly the pitch they sell to their advertisers is it?
bryanrasmussen 11y ago
actually I want ads that are really relevant. I sometimes get them in Gmail, most of the time not though. Don't like or use Facebook. I remember I had a talk with a coworker once and we talked about if the ad was good enough to give you what you really wanted to buy when you searched and he thought it should be the first result, which I don't agree with because of course what is most helpful to me at some point might not be what I want to buy in relation to the search but something else. But definitely the thing I want to buy should be presented to me when I want to buy it so that I can buy it with the least amount of fuss. But unfortunately that is not what I get.

newscracker 11y ago

Isn't it an exaggeration to say the ads are unblockable even on apps on phones? The apps generally do have more control on what's shown and what's not. To start, couldn't the ads be filtered and masked from one's router or on a (home) proxy server that one uses? The apps could be written such that they detect if an ad is being replaced with empty content, but I don't think the apps are there yet. On this topic, what are the latest alternatives available for routers/proxy servers that are as good as uBlock Origin (or ABE) on the desktop (sharing the same popular block lists)?

snorrah 11y ago

All that talent at Facebook, and they use it to come up with creepier and more invasive ways of ad targeting. I could not help laughing at the quote about it being for "the greater good". Hot Fuzz flashbacks ahoy.

gkanai 11y ago
The same can be said about Google, no?
- eru 11y ago
  We also make self-driving cars, to keep our conscious clean.
  - eevilspock 11y ago
    It's nice to know that some Google employees are resistant to cognitive dissonance. I remember reading somewhere that there is a (underground?) group within Google dissatisfied with the dominance of advertising at the company, both in business and product decisions.
    - eru 11y ago
      Advertising is a brilliant business to be in for Google, and the main cash cow. Nothing wrong with success. The ads are paying my salary indirectly. (If all ads were like Google ads, I wouldn't have bothered installing an ad-blocker in the first place.) > I remember reading somewhere that there is a (underground?) group within Google dissatisfied with the dominance of advertising at the company, both in business and product decisions. We have very vocal employees. You can find people complaining about everything. (Including the lack of M&Ms in some micro kitchens.) I am sure there are also people dissatisfied with ads. If you want to hear me complain, ask me about the choice of programming languages we are using. Or about open plan offices. Still the best run company I've worked for.
  - krapp 11y ago
    As if the self-driving cars won't be used for data-mining and analytics as well. I fully expect that every time I get into one it will be analyzing my eye and iris movement to derive my subconscious emotional responses to the businesses the car drives past or some similar creepy shit.

mrbig4545 11y ago

They're not in my phone, I don't use facebook on it.

skrebbel 11y ago

What a spammy title. The ads are only "in your phone" if you use a Facebook app. Breaking news! Ad-powered app shows ads in its app! Does anyone know whether Facebook also tracks you into and out of WhatsApp, by the way?

martinko 11y ago
> Does anyone know whether Facebook also tracks you into and out of WhatsApp, by the way? It most certainly does. I have contacts in WhatsApp that I have no other contact with (nor do they with me, dont know my name etc.), yet after the first time I chat with them on WhatsApp, they are in my recommended friends on facebook. Pretty infuriating.
- degenerate 11y ago
  $19B well spent... ha
- drdaeman 11y ago
  Does both WhatsApp and Facebook use (and were actually allowed to use) phone's built-in contact/address book subsystem? Honest question, I don't use either app, so no idea. Just thought this could be a possible that WA had created a contact in the system-wide address book and FB saw it.
  - martinko 11y ago
    I have other people in my phone contacts that Ive never communicated with on facebook and I have never been suggested to be friends with them. So Im doubtful.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

cognivore 11y ago

Um, not if you don't use Facebook?

rndmind 11y ago

Not for people that refuse to use it.