5 ms·

Moralizing on the subject is terrible, but there are legitimate issues with respect to production of the content and exploitation.

nostrademons 11y ago
Doesn't that apply to basically every industry in our modern capitalist economy?
- code_duck 11y ago
  Sure, so why not discuss this one?
- sandworm101 11y ago
  The porn industry does have some specific practical issues. Probably the most is the reliance on very young actresses. Most start while under 20 these days. People that age are too trusting. They get put in bad contracts and don't know their legal rights. For example, I had one girl come to me an say that a studio was claiming to "own" her real name, forbidding her from working under that name with anyone else. They had also not paid her. It boiled down to producers knowing they can bully these kids. The secrecy in which most of these girls wrap their work doesn't help. They are very hesitant to complain or reach out to lawyers.
  - BinaryIdiot 11y ago
    > The porn industry does have some specific practical issues. Probably the most is the reliance on very young actresses. Most start while under 20 these days. People that age are too trusting. They get put in bad contracts and don't know their legal rights. I would argue this is not specific to the porn industry. For instance colleges rely on students being too young and naive to really understand the student loan that they are given. 10 years later many feel betrayed or scammed because they have a degree that isn't always the best in the current economy and still in thousands of debt.
    - nostrademons 11y ago
      Ditto the music industry with teen pop stars, the professional sports industry with dreams of the major leagues, the tech startup industry where only a small fraction of startups will succeed, all of academia where you have dozens of Ph.Ds competing for each tenured professor job, the legal industry where thousands of deeply-indebted fresh-faced associates seek to make partner, and every corporate hierarchy. As they say, "When a less-experienced businessman meets a more-experienced businessman, the less-experienced businessman gets some experience." Not sure if there's any way around this, though. The people who avoid getting taken advantage of when they're young tend to get taken advantage of their whole life.
      - deleted 11y ago
        [deleted]
      - gaius 11y ago
        The games industry too is notorious for sucking in young talent and burning them out, there's always the next batch of naive graduates.
  - mgkimsal 11y ago
    Interesting. I don't know the specific wording, but how much of a contract holds up if one side doesn't hold up their end (not paying the other party). I know it's all down to what's in the specific text, but.. certainly morally, when you quit fulfilling your end of the bargain, I don't feel much of a need to uphold mine. Yes, I'm older now, but I know I felt that way even as a kid. That particular story just bugs me. Somehow they'd rather pay attorney fees against her for doing something she should be allowed to do, vs just using that money to ... pay her for services rendered in the first place. Touches a nerve, cause I had someone not pay me. But they had money to respond to my lawsuit, and in extremely great detail (20+ pages to detail all the ways they do not owe me anything for the several weeks I built their project and delivered it to their client).
    - sandworm101 11y ago
      The game is to promise the girl whatever gets her to the set, make the film, then look for whatever reason you can come up with not to pay her. Often there is no enforceable contract. In this particular case, the signed contract was with a fictitious company that had nothing to do with the filming or distribution (a sham 'talent' agency). All it took was a phonecall from someone familiar with the many rules regarding adult films. They paid as soon as they knew she was willing to seek help. In these situations they wrongdoer doesn't face attorney fees. They pay instantly, but they win in the long run because so many wronged actresses just disappear from the industry rather than put up a fight.
- Synaesthesia 11y ago
  Yes but in this instance it frequently includes sexual degradation and exploitation.

nostrademons 11y ago

Doesn't that apply to basically every industry in our modern capitalist economy?

code_duck 11y ago
Sure, so why not discuss this one?
sandworm101 11y ago
The porn industry does have some specific practical issues. Probably the most is the reliance on very young actresses. Most start while under 20 these days. People that age are too trusting. They get put in bad contracts and don't know their legal rights. For example, I had one girl come to me an say that a studio was claiming to "own" her real name, forbidding her from working under that name with anyone else. They had also not paid her. It boiled down to producers knowing they can bully these kids. The secrecy in which most of these girls wrap their work doesn't help. They are very hesitant to complain or reach out to lawyers.
- BinaryIdiot 11y ago
  > The porn industry does have some specific practical issues. Probably the most is the reliance on very young actresses. Most start while under 20 these days. People that age are too trusting. They get put in bad contracts and don't know their legal rights. I would argue this is not specific to the porn industry. For instance colleges rely on students being too young and naive to really understand the student loan that they are given. 10 years later many feel betrayed or scammed because they have a degree that isn't always the best in the current economy and still in thousands of debt.
  - nostrademons 11y ago
    Ditto the music industry with teen pop stars, the professional sports industry with dreams of the major leagues, the tech startup industry where only a small fraction of startups will succeed, all of academia where you have dozens of Ph.Ds competing for each tenured professor job, the legal industry where thousands of deeply-indebted fresh-faced associates seek to make partner, and every corporate hierarchy. As they say, "When a less-experienced businessman meets a more-experienced businessman, the less-experienced businessman gets some experience." Not sure if there's any way around this, though. The people who avoid getting taken advantage of when they're young tend to get taken advantage of their whole life.
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
    - gaius 11y ago
      The games industry too is notorious for sucking in young talent and burning them out, there's always the next batch of naive graduates.
- mgkimsal 11y ago
  Interesting. I don't know the specific wording, but how much of a contract holds up if one side doesn't hold up their end (not paying the other party). I know it's all down to what's in the specific text, but.. certainly morally, when you quit fulfilling your end of the bargain, I don't feel much of a need to uphold mine. Yes, I'm older now, but I know I felt that way even as a kid. That particular story just bugs me. Somehow they'd rather pay attorney fees against her for doing something she should be allowed to do, vs just using that money to ... pay her for services rendered in the first place. Touches a nerve, cause I had someone not pay me. But they had money to respond to my lawsuit, and in extremely great detail (20+ pages to detail all the ways they do not owe me anything for the several weeks I built their project and delivered it to their client).
  - sandworm101 11y ago
    The game is to promise the girl whatever gets her to the set, make the film, then look for whatever reason you can come up with not to pay her. Often there is no enforceable contract. In this particular case, the signed contract was with a fictitious company that had nothing to do with the filming or distribution (a sham 'talent' agency). All it took was a phonecall from someone familiar with the many rules regarding adult films. They paid as soon as they knew she was willing to seek help. In these situations they wrongdoer doesn't face attorney fees. They pay instantly, but they win in the long run because so many wronged actresses just disappear from the industry rather than put up a fight.
Synaesthesia 11y ago
Yes but in this instance it frequently includes sexual degradation and exploitation.