5 ms·

I am sympathetic to this author. I wrote this a while back on here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9883769 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9883769 I

I am sympathetic to this author. I wrote this a while back on here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9883769 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9883769 I am nostalgic for the land before internet. While there are many technological divides and revolutions between generations, not sure many in history compare to the dramatic change to global society and behavior as a result of the internet, and by its extension, the mobile era.

xixixao 11y ago
The invention of the car (and then of the plane)? Imagine the nostalgia for times when you had to walk for hours to meet someone across a city, or travels for days/weeks/months to meet far away places. Same with phones (and mobile phones), when you had to stick to a time you decided to meet somewhere, and you didn't show up... Good old times. Transportation and communication are really one thing, and any significant advancement in them will have the feeling. I will be remembering my youth, before VR, before shuttles/portals to Mars, whatever the future will bring. The way we look at the changes is much more tied to us than the change. You can always flip a coin and think of how marvelous these changes might seem to people in the past: "While I'm sitting in cafe with someone I can simultaneously communicate with someone else half-way across the globe? Wonderful!"
- hellofunk 11y ago
  I believe the internet is far greater a revolution for mankind than either the car or plane or telephone were. Unlike those, it has provided the possibility for 24-hour permanent connection with the rest of the world, at all times, at all locations you may be in. That is the sort of disruption that can significantly fade behavioral patterns that existed before.
  - xixixao 11y ago
    I don't want to downplay the impact of Internet, but I do think it is similar and the other advancements also faded some behavioral patterns, such as exchanging letters, which used to be an integral part of people's lives (for some perhaps the most important one). Second, we are not there yet on 24/7, anywhere connection, but we are working on it. Perhaps if we have instantaneous world-wide telepathy one day, Internet will also feel as just another advancement, like the car plane phone.
- ksk 11y ago
  You are conflating two different things. If you traveled by car to meet someone vs walking, you were not losing anything. However typing words to communicate is not the same as meeting someone in person and using the entire range of human expression - posture, voice, facial expressions, touch, smell, etc. There is an objective loss of 'information' when it comes to digital communication. Whether you value those additional things is up to you. But lets not pretend that its just the same and old people need to get on with the new times.
  - TeMPOraL 11y ago
    Well, I'm not touching or smelling everyone I talk to. I mean of course, text is much narrower band, but it's not that most of the communication you do day-to-day needs, or even benefits, from the full spectrum of bodily expressions. Please consider, that current technology gives us the ability to have many, many more conversations every day than our great grandparents could ever dream of. For instance, this whole discussion between all of us here wouldn't happen without Internet. I prefer having "subpar" communication with people all around the world to not having it at all. Also consider this - we've been having video chat capabilities for a decade or so already, and yet people don't go for it all that often. Why it's so? Maybe because for most of our conversations, not having to involve the messy things like body language and posture and cleaning yourself up from whatever you ate for breakfast are actually beneficial?
    - ksk 11y ago
      Implicit in what you're saying is that one of the reasons you're cool with having a "subpar" conversation with someone half-way around the world, is this idea that you're unable to find anyone in your immediate vicinity. Otherwise (if you agree that text is subpar) you would always prefer just calling up someone who is across the street. So because we don't know (or feel immediately comfortable) talking to 99.999% of humans that surround us, the "removal of the human element" makes it more comfortable to talk to someone halfway around the world. Sure, I'd like the OPTION of having to talk to someone half-way around the world. But I don't think that its necessarily the best option or that we should think that the only people that you can talk to on any given topic are necessarily not people who are sitting right next to you - on the bus/train/plane/park bench/etc. >Maybe because for most of our conversations, not having to involve the messy things like body language and posture and cleaning yourself up from whatever you ate for breakfast are actually beneficial? Or to turn it around, it would be so much better to live in a society where you could just strike up conversations with strangers and not be judged for superficial BS like crumbs on your face.
ZenoArrow 11y ago
I feel nostalgic for this time too, but in a less clear cut way. People seem to have forgotten that before the rise of the Internet there was another form of media that dominated our lives, and that was TV. Some of the complaints that apply to the Internet also apply to TV, in that it directed our attention away from life in our immediate vicinity, dominated how we spent our free time, etc... Even though I basically only watch YouTube now, I remember watching a ton of TV in the 80s and 90s. I have some fond memories of moments spent watching TV, but for the most part I watched a lot of utter dross. The same is true for the Internet now, some fond memories of time spent online but something keeps me looking even when the content is dull. If I could go back, I'd go back to an alternative reality where pirate radio was the dominant form of mass media. I like radio, and I'd like it even better with a greater variety of output, including easy to find output from those in the local area.

xixixao 11y ago

The invention of the car (and then of the plane)? Imagine the nostalgia for times when you had to walk for hours to meet someone across a city, or travels for days/weeks/months to meet far away places. Same with phones (and mobile phones), when you had to stick to a time you decided to meet somewhere, and you didn't show up... Good old times. Transportation and communication are really one thing, and any significant advancement in them will have the feeling. I will be remembering my youth, before VR, before shuttles/portals to Mars, whatever the future will bring. The way we look at the changes is much more tied to us than the change. You can always flip a coin and think of how marvelous these changes might seem to people in the past: "While I'm sitting in cafe with someone I can simultaneously communicate with someone else half-way across the globe? Wonderful!"

hellofunk 11y ago
I believe the internet is far greater a revolution for mankind than either the car or plane or telephone were. Unlike those, it has provided the possibility for 24-hour permanent connection with the rest of the world, at all times, at all locations you may be in. That is the sort of disruption that can significantly fade behavioral patterns that existed before.
- xixixao 11y ago
  I don't want to downplay the impact of Internet, but I do think it is similar and the other advancements also faded some behavioral patterns, such as exchanging letters, which used to be an integral part of people's lives (for some perhaps the most important one). Second, we are not there yet on 24/7, anywhere connection, but we are working on it. Perhaps if we have instantaneous world-wide telepathy one day, Internet will also feel as just another advancement, like the car plane phone.
ksk 11y ago
You are conflating two different things. If you traveled by car to meet someone vs walking, you were not losing anything. However typing words to communicate is not the same as meeting someone in person and using the entire range of human expression - posture, voice, facial expressions, touch, smell, etc. There is an objective loss of 'information' when it comes to digital communication. Whether you value those additional things is up to you. But lets not pretend that its just the same and old people need to get on with the new times.
- TeMPOraL 11y ago
  Well, I'm not touching or smelling everyone I talk to. I mean of course, text is much narrower band, but it's not that most of the communication you do day-to-day needs, or even benefits, from the full spectrum of bodily expressions. Please consider, that current technology gives us the ability to have many, many more conversations every day than our great grandparents could ever dream of. For instance, this whole discussion between all of us here wouldn't happen without Internet. I prefer having "subpar" communication with people all around the world to not having it at all. Also consider this - we've been having video chat capabilities for a decade or so already, and yet people don't go for it all that often. Why it's so? Maybe because for most of our conversations, not having to involve the messy things like body language and posture and cleaning yourself up from whatever you ate for breakfast are actually beneficial?
  - ksk 11y ago
    Implicit in what you're saying is that one of the reasons you're cool with having a "subpar" conversation with someone half-way around the world, is this idea that you're unable to find anyone in your immediate vicinity. Otherwise (if you agree that text is subpar) you would always prefer just calling up someone who is across the street. So because we don't know (or feel immediately comfortable) talking to 99.999% of humans that surround us, the "removal of the human element" makes it more comfortable to talk to someone halfway around the world. Sure, I'd like the OPTION of having to talk to someone half-way around the world. But I don't think that its necessarily the best option or that we should think that the only people that you can talk to on any given topic are necessarily not people who are sitting right next to you - on the bus/train/plane/park bench/etc. >Maybe because for most of our conversations, not having to involve the messy things like body language and posture and cleaning yourself up from whatever you ate for breakfast are actually beneficial? Or to turn it around, it would be so much better to live in a society where you could just strike up conversations with strangers and not be judged for superficial BS like crumbs on your face.

ZenoArrow 11y ago

I feel nostalgic for this time too, but in a less clear cut way. People seem to have forgotten that before the rise of the Internet there was another form of media that dominated our lives, and that was TV. Some of the complaints that apply to the Internet also apply to TV, in that it directed our attention away from life in our immediate vicinity, dominated how we spent our free time, etc... Even though I basically only watch YouTube now, I remember watching a ton of TV in the 80s and 90s. I have some fond memories of moments spent watching TV, but for the most part I watched a lot of utter dross. The same is true for the Internet now, some fond memories of time spent online but something keeps me looking even when the content is dull. If I could go back, I'd go back to an alternative reality where pirate radio was the dominant form of mass media. I like radio, and I'd like it even better with a greater variety of output, including easy to find output from those in the local area.