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poeple especially don't need apps of 150mb+ each, and premium phones come with limited storage forcing costly upgrades on top of an hefty price. the only compe

poeple especially don't need apps of 150mb+ each, and premium phones come with limited storage forcing costly upgrades on top of an hefty price. the only competitive advantage for apps is push notifications, and the sooner browsers and phones can build that into a standard the better (including opening the right page when clicking on a specific service notification)

jzzskijj 11y ago
The other thing is privacy. I don't want to give every service a "full access" into my phone. At least I have a feeling, that my privacy is in better hands, if I access services using up-to-date mobile browser (or Tinfoil for Facebook) instead of a native app running on my phone. Looking at the ridiculous number of permissions different apps would require to run on my (Android) phone, using mobile site of the most of the services seems safer choice. Android 6.0 may change this with switchable permissions, tho.
- andrepd 11y ago
  I remember having switchable permissions since 4.3. Did something change in the meantime?
  - tdkl 11y ago
    AppOps got canned since 4.4 in AOSP and are coming back in 6.0.
    - andrepd 11y ago
      It went away in 4.4 but I have it again on 5.0. I had to use Xposed to get it to work on 4.4 but now it's on again by default. I see people complaining it's not present in 5.0, though. Strange...
- LoSboccacc 11y ago
  you are right about privacy, but if you follow the thread the parent already makes a good point of user already having been desensitized about app security permission by them being confusing and only really understood by few I agree that the current browsers represent an exceptionally good model to run remote applications securely, far better than the app store / play store 'sandbox' and 'vetting processes' model, since has been used since forever and tested again loads of different attack vectors. but I don't know if this is the reason for non nerds not to use native apps
jeromenerf 11y ago
Offline storage is a great competitive advantage for apps.
- LoSboccacc 11y ago
  uhm while WebSQL and IndexDB aren't mature enough, wrapping libraries that grant some cross platform offline storage do exist and are only getting better
davnicwil 11y ago
> the only competitive advantage for apps is push notifications Don't know about that. What about UX? It's pretty well accepted now that the native controls in apps provide a much less frustrating UX than all but the most meticulously designed web apps, which is a very low percentage right at the top. That's just talking about controls, that's not even to mention the clunkiness of the browser itself (address bar popping up over content, popups offering to remember passwords, all that kind of stuff that detracts from your tailored experience) and to an extent the navigation model (typing in a url rather than tapping an icon for instantaneous checking of a service). Simple stuff like this really matters to the majority of people. For technically-minded people, we're not as distracted or put off by this 'minor' stuff because we understand the trade offs, reasons for it, depth of it and even how to work around it. Most people don't, they just (probably rightly based on evidence) trust apps to deliver a better and more tailored UX and that's it, that's what they like and want more of. Don't get me wrong, I love the web, for probably much the same reasons you do. One advantage it definitely has is the ability to avoid downloading apps in the first place. But its competitive disadvantages vs native apps go way beyond push notifications. There's are a lot of things so deeply baked in to the web and browsers that apps do so much better that it will take (software) generations to 'fix', if at all. Unfortunately for the web, as seen in the last five years or so, these are disadvantages that really, really matter to the majority of people who actually use services. Much more so than the higher level, arguably 'more important' things like security, privacy, storage space, etc that us techies tend to prioritise.
- LoSboccacc 11y ago
  address bar popping up over content [true] popups offering to remember passwords [solved] typing in a url rather than tapping an icon [solved] we're not that far from a good user experience. even the bar problem is only ios specific, android browsers have a better support for full screen apps

jzzskijj 11y ago

The other thing is privacy. I don't want to give every service a "full access" into my phone. At least I have a feeling, that my privacy is in better hands, if I access services using up-to-date mobile browser (or Tinfoil for Facebook) instead of a native app running on my phone. Looking at the ridiculous number of permissions different apps would require to run on my (Android) phone, using mobile site of the most of the services seems safer choice. Android 6.0 may change this with switchable permissions, tho.

andrepd 11y ago
I remember having switchable permissions since 4.3. Did something change in the meantime?
- tdkl 11y ago
  AppOps got canned since 4.4 in AOSP and are coming back in 6.0.
  - andrepd 11y ago
    It went away in 4.4 but I have it again on 5.0. I had to use Xposed to get it to work on 4.4 but now it's on again by default. I see people complaining it's not present in 5.0, though. Strange...
LoSboccacc 11y ago
you are right about privacy, but if you follow the thread the parent already makes a good point of user already having been desensitized about app security permission by them being confusing and only really understood by few I agree that the current browsers represent an exceptionally good model to run remote applications securely, far better than the app store / play store 'sandbox' and 'vetting processes' model, since has been used since forever and tested again loads of different attack vectors. but I don't know if this is the reason for non nerds not to use native apps

jeromenerf 11y ago

Offline storage is a great competitive advantage for apps.

LoSboccacc 11y ago
uhm while WebSQL and IndexDB aren't mature enough, wrapping libraries that grant some cross platform offline storage do exist and are only getting better

davnicwil 11y ago

> the only competitive advantage for apps is push notifications Don't know about that. What about UX? It's pretty well accepted now that the native controls in apps provide a much less frustrating UX than all but the most meticulously designed web apps, which is a very low percentage right at the top. That's just talking about controls, that's not even to mention the clunkiness of the browser itself (address bar popping up over content, popups offering to remember passwords, all that kind of stuff that detracts from your tailored experience) and to an extent the navigation model (typing in a url rather than tapping an icon for instantaneous checking of a service). Simple stuff like this really matters to the majority of people. For technically-minded people, we're not as distracted or put off by this 'minor' stuff because we understand the trade offs, reasons for it, depth of it and even how to work around it. Most people don't, they just (probably rightly based on evidence) trust apps to deliver a better and more tailored UX and that's it, that's what they like and want more of. Don't get me wrong, I love the web, for probably much the same reasons you do. One advantage it definitely has is the ability to avoid downloading apps in the first place. But its competitive disadvantages vs native apps go way beyond push notifications. There's are a lot of things so deeply baked in to the web and browsers that apps do so much better that it will take (software) generations to 'fix', if at all. Unfortunately for the web, as seen in the last five years or so, these are disadvantages that really, really matter to the majority of people who actually use services. Much more so than the higher level, arguably 'more important' things like security, privacy, storage space, etc that us techies tend to prioritise.

LoSboccacc 11y ago
address bar popping up over content [true] popups offering to remember passwords [solved] typing in a url rather than tapping an icon [solved] we're not that far from a good user experience. even the bar problem is only ios specific, android browsers have a better support for full screen apps