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> being nice all the time, to everybody is for saints/idiots and plenty of social games are zero or negative sum. Sure, but that's only because the rest of us

> being nice all the time, to everybody is for saints/idiots and plenty of social games are zero or negative sum. Sure, but that's only because the rest of us are being nice frequently enough that your statement is true. If everyone decided to start “gaming” social interactions, i'm not sure we'd be left with a society i would want to live in... Part of the social contract, i think, involves not emphasising what chumps everyone is for following it. For pragmatic reasons.

barry-cotter 11y ago
> Sure, but that's only because the rest of us are being nice frequently enough that your statement is true. No, playing cooperate bot and being nice to everybody all the time really is a losing strategy and many social games really are zero or negative sum. This has absolutely nothing to do with how often other people are nice. They are facts about the world not moral judgments. > If everyone decided to start “gaming” social interactions, i'm not sure we'd be left with a society i would want to live in... Probably not but it would at least have the virtue of honesty. Your preferences are a fact about you, not deep statements about reality. The universe does not care and your descendants 200 years hence will be as different from you as you are from your ancestors in 1815. If we're around that long, we'll all be monsters to some. Morality is mostly, perhaps entirely fashion and economics. > Part of the social contract, i think, involves not emphasising what chumps everyone is for following it. For pragmatic reasons. The social contract is a very, very misleading metaphor. The world of zero and negative sum social games is the one we actually live in. All human progress has come from expanding the domain of the positive sum games but the other kinds will never go away. The universe is limited and our desires are not. If you want a treatment of what a world based on this very cynical truth would look like I recommend beginning here. http://bactra.org/reviews/cassini-division/true-knowledge.html http://bactra.org/reviews/cassini-division/true-knowledge.ht... http://crookedtimber.org/2015/05/19/ken-macleod-seminar-2/ http://crookedtimber.org/2015/05/19/ken-macleod-seminar-2/ http://crookedtimber.org/2015/05/15/rationalism-and-the-true-knowledge/ http://crookedtimber.org/2015/05/15/rationalism-and-the-true...
- sarciszewski 11y ago
  > Probably not but it would at least have the virtue of honesty. Gaming a system involves manipulation. Most forms of human manipulation involve deceit, which is the absence of honesty.

barry-cotter 11y ago

> Sure, but that's only because the rest of us are being nice frequently enough that your statement is true. No, playing cooperate bot and being nice to everybody all the time really is a losing strategy and many social games really are zero or negative sum. This has absolutely nothing to do with how often other people are nice. They are facts about the world not moral judgments. > If everyone decided to start “gaming” social interactions, i'm not sure we'd be left with a society i would want to live in... Probably not but it would at least have the virtue of honesty. Your preferences are a fact about you, not deep statements about reality. The universe does not care and your descendants 200 years hence will be as different from you as you are from your ancestors in 1815. If we're around that long, we'll all be monsters to some. Morality is mostly, perhaps entirely fashion and economics. > Part of the social contract, i think, involves not emphasising what chumps everyone is for following it. For pragmatic reasons. The social contract is a very, very misleading metaphor. The world of zero and negative sum social games is the one we actually live in. All human progress has come from expanding the domain of the positive sum games but the other kinds will never go away. The universe is limited and our desires are not. If you want a treatment of what a world based on this very cynical truth would look like I recommend beginning here. http://bactra.org/reviews/cassini-division/true-knowledge.html http://bactra.org/reviews/cassini-division/true-knowledge.ht... http://crookedtimber.org/2015/05/19/ken-macleod-seminar-2/ http://crookedtimber.org/2015/05/19/ken-macleod-seminar-2/ http://crookedtimber.org/2015/05/15/rationalism-and-the-true-knowledge/ http://crookedtimber.org/2015/05/15/rationalism-and-the-true...

sarciszewski 11y ago
> Probably not but it would at least have the virtue of honesty. Gaming a system involves manipulation. Most forms of human manipulation involve deceit, which is the absence of honesty.