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This whole article is assuming that innovation comes from money, and specifically from the money labeled "R&D" in the budgets of nations and companies. Yet, mo

by toomim 11y ago

This whole article is assuming that innovation comes from money, and specifically from the money labeled "R&D" in the budgets of nations and companies. Yet, most startups started on shoestrings. Then they got investment from VC firms. These sources of innovation don't come from NSF or Microsoft Research. And American innovation comes from far more than money. The culture of American innovation is a huge factor, which isn't declining at all.

knieveltech 11y ago
Trashing the margins of existing industries or providing a new interface for web-based technologies that have been around in one form or another since the early 90s is hardly innovation. You were saying something about startups?
rocky1138 11y ago
I totally agree that the American culture is a huge factor. It's as though this article has it backwards, that because there was money, there were risk takers. But I believe that the culture of willingness to risk is the driving force behind the money and the driving force behind much of that nation's successes. Fortune favours the bold. Secondarily, as public money from governments and money from large corporations dry up, innovation and risks are taken on by other parties. The article completely avoids crowdsourcing such as Kickstarter campaigns, an example of innovation being Oculus and their Rift. As the cost of innovating decreases, innovation decentralization increases.
- L_Rahman 11y ago
  Funny you mention Oculus as an example of non-funding driven innovation: > In 2011, Luckey got a dream job working as a technician at the Mixed Reality Lab (MxR) at the University of Southern California's Institute for Creative Technologies (ICT). There, he had a chance to cross deep into VR territory. On Sept. 25, he posted the following on MTBS3D. [These excerpts are condensed and lightly edited.] He described the experience in a 1500-word narrative titled "Truly immersive (AKA "Holy crap this is real") VR simulation." via: http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/gadgets/a12956/palmer-luckey-and-the-virtual-reality-resurrection-16834760/ http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/gadgets/a12956/pa...
  - rocky1138 11y ago
    That's really interesting! But do you believe Luckey would not have worked on VR if it were not for the job at MxR? I believe he would have, though it might have taken him longer or he may have taken a different path. The innovation stems from Luckey and the culture of risk and it's given a chance to flourish easier through funding than without. Besides, I was saying that other means have become available as the cost of innovating has been cut, sometimes by orders ot magnitude. Kickstarter, specifically, has replaced a lot of traditional public or large corporation outlets for funding.
sandworm101 11y ago
There are things that startups can address and there are things that they cannot. For little things that address a known or suspected market demand it is possible for a privately-operated business to develop new science. But when it comes to total blue sky research without any concept of a marketable product, and/or anything involving big science, then the private sector is not the ideal model.
rifung 11y ago
I don't think startups can really be considered innovative in the way that the article is talking about. Certainly startups can have very creative products, but in the end they almost always apply existing technology, whereas the article is more concerned with actually advancing science, engineering, or the arts. That's not to say that startups are unimportant, just that I don't think anyone would argue it makes sense to replace all research labs with startups. Startups are focused on making money, whereas research is focused with progress in human knowledge.
- noobermin 11y ago
  Specifically, I think rifung is referring to the very high cost of fundamental research that startups don't have to incur, especially given the slow return on such investments.
gohrt 11y ago
Fun fact: Startups are absolutely R&D. D is for Development. Everyone who writes software is R&D as far as the IRS is concerned -- I have filled out the tax forms at my jobs.
gaadd33 11y ago
What startups have won Nobel Prizes for their innovation? Or contributed materially to our fundamental knowledge of science? I can't think of any but Bell Labs, IBM Research and similar have. If there are some out there it would be great to read about them.

by toomim 11y ago

knieveltech 11y ago

Trashing the margins of existing industries or providing a new interface for web-based technologies that have been around in one form or another since the early 90s is hardly innovation. You were saying something about startups?

rocky1138 11y ago

I totally agree that the American culture is a huge factor. It's as though this article has it backwards, that because there was money, there were risk takers. But I believe that the culture of willingness to risk is the driving force behind the money and the driving force behind much of that nation's successes. Fortune favours the bold. Secondarily, as public money from governments and money from large corporations dry up, innovation and risks are taken on by other parties. The article completely avoids crowdsourcing such as Kickstarter campaigns, an example of innovation being Oculus and their Rift. As the cost of innovating decreases, innovation decentralization increases.

L_Rahman 11y ago
Funny you mention Oculus as an example of non-funding driven innovation: > In 2011, Luckey got a dream job working as a technician at the Mixed Reality Lab (MxR) at the University of Southern California's Institute for Creative Technologies (ICT). There, he had a chance to cross deep into VR territory. On Sept. 25, he posted the following on MTBS3D. [These excerpts are condensed and lightly edited.] He described the experience in a 1500-word narrative titled "Truly immersive (AKA "Holy crap this is real") VR simulation." via: http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/gadgets/a12956/palmer-luckey-and-the-virtual-reality-resurrection-16834760/ http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/gadgets/a12956/pa...
- rocky1138 11y ago
  That's really interesting! But do you believe Luckey would not have worked on VR if it were not for the job at MxR? I believe he would have, though it might have taken him longer or he may have taken a different path. The innovation stems from Luckey and the culture of risk and it's given a chance to flourish easier through funding than without. Besides, I was saying that other means have become available as the cost of innovating has been cut, sometimes by orders ot magnitude. Kickstarter, specifically, has replaced a lot of traditional public or large corporation outlets for funding.

sandworm101 11y ago

There are things that startups can address and there are things that they cannot. For little things that address a known or suspected market demand it is possible for a privately-operated business to develop new science. But when it comes to total blue sky research without any concept of a marketable product, and/or anything involving big science, then the private sector is not the ideal model.

rifung 11y ago

I don't think startups can really be considered innovative in the way that the article is talking about. Certainly startups can have very creative products, but in the end they almost always apply existing technology, whereas the article is more concerned with actually advancing science, engineering, or the arts. That's not to say that startups are unimportant, just that I don't think anyone would argue it makes sense to replace all research labs with startups. Startups are focused on making money, whereas research is focused with progress in human knowledge.

noobermin 11y ago
Specifically, I think rifung is referring to the very high cost of fundamental research that startups don't have to incur, especially given the slow return on such investments.

gohrt 11y ago

Fun fact: Startups are absolutely R&D. D is for Development. Everyone who writes software is R&D as far as the IRS is concerned -- I have filled out the tax forms at my jobs.

gaadd33 11y ago

What startups have won Nobel Prizes for their innovation? Or contributed materially to our fundamental knowledge of science? I can't think of any but Bell Labs, IBM Research and similar have. If there are some out there it would be great to read about them.