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Balsamiq has twice as many twitter followers as Facebook 'Fans'. I'm strongly of the opinion that the word 'Fan' and the way it shows up in your Facebook profil

Balsamiq has twice as many twitter followers as Facebook 'Fans'. I'm strongly of the opinion that the word 'Fan' and the way it shows up in your Facebook profile makes Facebook pages a lot less useful for businesses. I want to get info about balasamiq, but I am not ready to describe myself as a fan to everyone on my facebook friendslist, considering that I've not used it. Facebook should allow you to 'friend' a business without having to be a 'fan' of it. I think if they allowed this, facebook interaction between business and normal users would be much higher, considering the much larger facebook userbase.

timf 17y ago
Great observation. > Facebook should allow you to 'friend' a business That has the same connotations to me, how about "follow"
- maxklein 17y ago
  Follow works even better. Now all we need is someone from Facebook to take part in this conversation...
  - jfarmer 17y ago
    Facebook does allow per-page-type changes in follow-verbs. For example, you don't "fan" a politician, you "support" them. Page admins have no control over this, though, it's hard-coded per page type. So I can't imagine there's even that much work involved in changing the copy from "fan" to "follow" for certain page types (or even letting the page admin select among a few, pre-configure options when setting up the page).
    - maxklein 17y ago
      What about I want to see what Linode vs Slicehost are up to, even though I am at Dreamhost? I would just like to follow them for a while while, get a feel of who they are before deciding. Not 'support' or 'fan' them. Facebook should change their verbs.
vaksel 17y ago
Twitter is useless compared to Facebook. You get a lot more engagement from Facebook. With twitter your window of opportunity is the 5 seconds that you show up in their feed. With Facebook that time is a lot longer. You can have 10,000 followers on twitter, but only 20 people will see your announcement, since you'll show up in their feed for 5 seconds. Anyone who follows a business account on Twitter, is most likely following more than 100 people(and most likely >1000), which means you are one of hundreds of people trying to talk to them
- steveklabnik 17y ago
  That's why you @reply them. Not in a spammy manner, of course. But if someone's talking about your business on Twitter, engage them.
  - vaksel 17y ago
    I was talking more about announcements. I do the @reply thing, but it's a little sucky, since that @reply shows up in everyone's feed.
    - jsb 17y ago
      So long as you start the tweet with @[twitteruser], your @reply will only appear in someone's feed if they follow you and also the person you are sending the at-reply to. Or if they are the person you're sending the message to, of course.
      - vaksel 17y ago
        that's the point, if my message is only to that one person, why would my followers want to read about it?
        jsb 17y ago
        To clarify, your @reply won't necessarily appear in everyone's feed. It will only appear if: 1) They are the user you are sending the @reply to, OR 2) They follow you AND the person you send the @reply to. So for example, if I follow @balsamiq and @fogbugz and @balsamiq sends an @reply to @fogbugz, that message will appear in my feed. But if @balsamiq sends an @reply to a user I do not follow, I will not see it in my feed.
wheels 17y ago
We have 5x as many Twitter followers as Facebook fans (363 vs. 74), but I'm not convinced it's as simple as semantics: Facebook, despite their recent posturing, is for me still a personal sphere. Twitter, despite its flippant image, is for me about business. At the very least it's my web persona, rather than, say, my people-I've-known-since-I-was-11 persona. I follow a bunch of businesses (and moreso, business contacts) on Twitter. The only businesses I follow on Facebook are from friends who have nagged me about doing such. ;-)
- callingyouout 17y ago
  > We have Who the hell is we? Do you really think you're important enough to use the royal "we"? I have no idea who you're talking about. Your post sure as hell doesn't make it clear, and I guarantee you you're not important enough to use "we" unambiguously.
  - deleted 17y ago
    [deleted]
  - jfarmer 17y ago
    His startup is called Directed Edge. They got into YC last year. And is your handle really "callingyouout?" Go back to Reddit where gimmick personalities are appreciated.
    - wheels 17y ago
      Actually I didn't mention our name since it wasn't relevant to the point. I assumed it was clear from context that I meant, "a startup I work for". I originally wrote that in a reply to said comment, but it's just a trolling account, so I deleted it: http://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=callingyouout http://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=callingyouout
- maxklein 17y ago
  Facebook is still a personal sphere, but some business do belong in my personal sphere. I'd probably not want your business in my facebook stream, since I don't use you, but there is this artist I know who often makes print that can be bought. I want to see what he's up to, and if there is something good, I'd like to buy it. My webhost, I'd be interested in seeing what they are up to, and knowing that all is safe. When Django is updated, would not mind seeing that in the stream too. I'd like to see politicians too - and I don't want to have to say I am their 'Fan' to see what they have to say or their photos! I can construct my facebook to deliver the info I want to see. It's easy to hide info from a business when they start spamming and just as easy to remove them from my friends list. So even though facebook started off as a personal sphere, I think it will have great utility for small business. It's possible to get personal with your customers.
aneesh 17y ago
I've found facebook to be better for interaction with users. I have ~800 Facebook fans, and ~150 twitter followers, and I get much more than 6x the page views/comments/etc from Facebook fans than from Twitter followers. With Twitter, your tweets easily get lost in the sea of tweets, whereas Facebook stories persist in the fans' News Feeds for a while, and then show up even more if their friends interacted with it.
- maxklein 17y ago
  Those are exactly my thoughts - facebook is a lot more involved with the user, and so an interaction between user and business would be more personal, more viral and with a lot more info about your users. I tried using twitter for business shortly, but it is too difficult to handle effectively. I've switched to facebook, and I'm seeing better results but I still dislike this 'fan' thing. People don't want to be fans, but they are interested in interacting.

timf 17y ago

Great observation. > Facebook should allow you to 'friend' a business That has the same connotations to me, how about "follow"

maxklein 17y ago
Follow works even better. Now all we need is someone from Facebook to take part in this conversation...
- jfarmer 17y ago
  Facebook does allow per-page-type changes in follow-verbs. For example, you don't "fan" a politician, you "support" them. Page admins have no control over this, though, it's hard-coded per page type. So I can't imagine there's even that much work involved in changing the copy from "fan" to "follow" for certain page types (or even letting the page admin select among a few, pre-configure options when setting up the page).
  - maxklein 17y ago
    What about I want to see what Linode vs Slicehost are up to, even though I am at Dreamhost? I would just like to follow them for a while while, get a feel of who they are before deciding. Not 'support' or 'fan' them. Facebook should change their verbs.

vaksel 17y ago

Twitter is useless compared to Facebook. You get a lot more engagement from Facebook. With twitter your window of opportunity is the 5 seconds that you show up in their feed. With Facebook that time is a lot longer. You can have 10,000 followers on twitter, but only 20 people will see your announcement, since you'll show up in their feed for 5 seconds. Anyone who follows a business account on Twitter, is most likely following more than 100 people(and most likely >1000), which means you are one of hundreds of people trying to talk to them

steveklabnik 17y ago
That's why you @reply them. Not in a spammy manner, of course. But if someone's talking about your business on Twitter, engage them.
- vaksel 17y ago
  I was talking more about announcements. I do the @reply thing, but it's a little sucky, since that @reply shows up in everyone's feed.
  - jsb 17y ago
    So long as you start the tweet with @[twitteruser], your @reply will only appear in someone's feed if they follow you and also the person you are sending the at-reply to. Or if they are the person you're sending the message to, of course.
    - vaksel 17y ago
      that's the point, if my message is only to that one person, why would my followers want to read about it?
      - jsb 17y ago
        To clarify, your @reply won't necessarily appear in everyone's feed. It will only appear if: 1) They are the user you are sending the @reply to, OR 2) They follow you AND the person you send the @reply to. So for example, if I follow @balsamiq and @fogbugz and @balsamiq sends an @reply to @fogbugz, that message will appear in my feed. But if @balsamiq sends an @reply to a user I do not follow, I will not see it in my feed.

wheels 17y ago

We have 5x as many Twitter followers as Facebook fans (363 vs. 74), but I'm not convinced it's as simple as semantics: Facebook, despite their recent posturing, is for me still a personal sphere. Twitter, despite its flippant image, is for me about business. At the very least it's my web persona, rather than, say, my people-I've-known-since-I-was-11 persona. I follow a bunch of businesses (and moreso, business contacts) on Twitter. The only businesses I follow on Facebook are from friends who have nagged me about doing such. ;-)

callingyouout 17y ago
> We have Who the hell is we? Do you really think you're important enough to use the royal "we"? I have no idea who you're talking about. Your post sure as hell doesn't make it clear, and I guarantee you you're not important enough to use "we" unambiguously.
- deleted 17y ago
  [deleted]
- jfarmer 17y ago
  His startup is called Directed Edge. They got into YC last year. And is your handle really "callingyouout?" Go back to Reddit where gimmick personalities are appreciated.
  - wheels 17y ago
    Actually I didn't mention our name since it wasn't relevant to the point. I assumed it was clear from context that I meant, "a startup I work for". I originally wrote that in a reply to said comment, but it's just a trolling account, so I deleted it: http://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=callingyouout http://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=callingyouout
maxklein 17y ago
Facebook is still a personal sphere, but some business do belong in my personal sphere. I'd probably not want your business in my facebook stream, since I don't use you, but there is this artist I know who often makes print that can be bought. I want to see what he's up to, and if there is something good, I'd like to buy it. My webhost, I'd be interested in seeing what they are up to, and knowing that all is safe. When Django is updated, would not mind seeing that in the stream too. I'd like to see politicians too - and I don't want to have to say I am their 'Fan' to see what they have to say or their photos! I can construct my facebook to deliver the info I want to see. It's easy to hide info from a business when they start spamming and just as easy to remove them from my friends list. So even though facebook started off as a personal sphere, I think it will have great utility for small business. It's possible to get personal with your customers.

aneesh 17y ago

I've found facebook to be better for interaction with users. I have ~800 Facebook fans, and ~150 twitter followers, and I get much more than 6x the page views/comments/etc from Facebook fans than from Twitter followers. With Twitter, your tweets easily get lost in the sea of tweets, whereas Facebook stories persist in the fans' News Feeds for a while, and then show up even more if their friends interacted with it.

maxklein 17y ago
Those are exactly my thoughts - facebook is a lot more involved with the user, and so an interaction between user and business would be more personal, more viral and with a lot more info about your users. I tried using twitter for business shortly, but it is too difficult to handle effectively. I've switched to facebook, and I'm seeing better results but I still dislike this 'fan' thing. People don't want to be fans, but they are interested in interacting.