4 ms·

Both official perjury and intentional destruction of recording equipment are vicious, anti-democratic acts. It's puzzling to me that these are not regarded as

by jMyles 11y ago

Both official perjury and intentional destruction of recording equipment are vicious, anti-democratic acts. It's puzzling to me that these are not regarded as serious felonies, disqualifying offenders from public office for life and subjecting them to substantial criminal penalties.

Implicated 11y ago
For non law enforcement those are serious offenses that are sure to be met with jail time at the least.
viraptor 11y ago
"officers are now being investigated by the force’s Professional Standards division." - while we can ask easily imagine what happened to the phone and why, that's not a proof of anything. At least it's being investigated. All criminals deserve proper investigation.
- jMyles 11y ago
  > not a proof of anything I think it's reasonable, from the video of the police officer slapping the phone away, to conclude that the police officer slapped the phone away. > All criminals deserve proper investigation. The point of "innocent until proven guilty" is that the burden of proof is on the state. It's reasonable to ask that conduct undertaken by state actors, on the other hand, be accompanied by proof that it was within the law.
  - viraptor 11y ago
    I meant the part where they "lost the phone" only. Not the policemen - I fully agree about their direct actions.
- revelation 11y ago
  That is not a proper investigation, it's a HR thing. There need to be actual criminal charges.
- Area12 11y ago
  Why is the "Professional Standards division" a division of the force? In New Zealand the equivalent organisation is very specifically NOT part of any police force. In fact, it's in their name: "Independent Police Conduct Authority". Maybe that's one reason why New Zealand is usually in the top five "least corrupt countries in the world". The USA isn't. This is one reason why.
blazespin 11y ago
I'm not going to excuse police for their actions, but I do know as a society we should value them much more. I say ramp up their salaries significantly but increase oversight (body cameras, more automation, etc).
- jMyles 11y ago
  I surmise that this is precisely what will happen when we find a way to deploy police that does not involve the state (or state-like giant corporations).
- ZanyProgrammer 11y ago
  "I say ramp up their salaries significantly"-how are you going to pay for this? Do you think cops are grossly underpaid now?
  - chillacy 11y ago
    It already seems pretty decent, a police sergeant can make over 100k (though officers start at 57k in LAPD as of today) http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/LAPD-Salaries-E135741.htm http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/LAPD-Salaries-E135741.htm
    - jMyles 11y ago
      It's not clear to me whether these figures include overtime, which often makes up a substantial part of the compensation for a police officer. I surmise that GP's comment is partly read to mean that overtime (ie, working 60+ hours a week sometimes!) is part of the way we don't treat police officers very well. It seems pretty clear to me that a police officer working a 24 hour shift is a liability.
      - danso 11y ago
        Uh...I don't think there are too many instances of cops working 24-hour shifts. Firefighters have 72-hour shifts but that includes bunking at the department. If you go to publicpay.ca.gov, you'll find the state wide databases of city and state employees. Police officers make up nearly all of the top non-executive positions. Second, police officers want overtime. If you've watched The Wire, there are more than a few scenes/threads in which eliminating overtime is seen as punishment to officers. This is also chronicled in David Simon's non-fiction book, "Homicide", which The Wire is heavily based off of. This is not to say that we shouldn't staff departments in a way that overtime isn't excessive. But I doubt you'll find much political support from the officers or their leaders on that. In fact, the use of overtimes is one of the best way for police officers to ensure a huge pension...Pensions are often calculated on based on the last year of a retiring officer's salary. So an officer who makes $64K base salary in his career can retire with $82K in annual retirement, by working $120,000 worth of overtime in his final year: http://www.nola.com/crime/baton-rouge/index.ssf/2015/05/how_a_police_officer_can_make.html http://www.nola.com/crime/baton-rouge/index.ssf/2015/05/how_...

by jMyles 11y ago

Implicated 11y ago

For non law enforcement those are serious offenses that are sure to be met with jail time at the least.

viraptor 11y ago

"officers are now being investigated by the force’s Professional Standards division." - while we can ask easily imagine what happened to the phone and why, that's not a proof of anything. At least it's being investigated. All criminals deserve proper investigation.

jMyles 11y ago
> not a proof of anything I think it's reasonable, from the video of the police officer slapping the phone away, to conclude that the police officer slapped the phone away. > All criminals deserve proper investigation. The point of "innocent until proven guilty" is that the burden of proof is on the state. It's reasonable to ask that conduct undertaken by state actors, on the other hand, be accompanied by proof that it was within the law.
- viraptor 11y ago
  I meant the part where they "lost the phone" only. Not the policemen - I fully agree about their direct actions.
revelation 11y ago
That is not a proper investigation, it's a HR thing. There need to be actual criminal charges.
Area12 11y ago
Why is the "Professional Standards division" a division of the force? In New Zealand the equivalent organisation is very specifically NOT part of any police force. In fact, it's in their name: "Independent Police Conduct Authority". Maybe that's one reason why New Zealand is usually in the top five "least corrupt countries in the world". The USA isn't. This is one reason why.

blazespin 11y ago

I'm not going to excuse police for their actions, but I do know as a society we should value them much more. I say ramp up their salaries significantly but increase oversight (body cameras, more automation, etc).

jMyles 11y ago
I surmise that this is precisely what will happen when we find a way to deploy police that does not involve the state (or state-like giant corporations).
ZanyProgrammer 11y ago
"I say ramp up their salaries significantly"-how are you going to pay for this? Do you think cops are grossly underpaid now?
- chillacy 11y ago
  It already seems pretty decent, a police sergeant can make over 100k (though officers start at 57k in LAPD as of today) http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/LAPD-Salaries-E135741.htm http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/LAPD-Salaries-E135741.htm
  - jMyles 11y ago
    It's not clear to me whether these figures include overtime, which often makes up a substantial part of the compensation for a police officer. I surmise that GP's comment is partly read to mean that overtime (ie, working 60+ hours a week sometimes!) is part of the way we don't treat police officers very well. It seems pretty clear to me that a police officer working a 24 hour shift is a liability.
    - danso 11y ago
      Uh...I don't think there are too many instances of cops working 24-hour shifts. Firefighters have 72-hour shifts but that includes bunking at the department. If you go to publicpay.ca.gov, you'll find the state wide databases of city and state employees. Police officers make up nearly all of the top non-executive positions. Second, police officers want overtime. If you've watched The Wire, there are more than a few scenes/threads in which eliminating overtime is seen as punishment to officers. This is also chronicled in David Simon's non-fiction book, "Homicide", which The Wire is heavily based off of. This is not to say that we shouldn't staff departments in a way that overtime isn't excessive. But I doubt you'll find much political support from the officers or their leaders on that. In fact, the use of overtimes is one of the best way for police officers to ensure a huge pension...Pensions are often calculated on based on the last year of a retiring officer's salary. So an officer who makes $64K base salary in his career can retire with $82K in annual retirement, by working $120,000 worth of overtime in his final year: http://www.nola.com/crime/baton-rouge/index.ssf/2015/05/how_a_police_officer_can_make.html http://www.nola.com/crime/baton-rouge/index.ssf/2015/05/how_...