5 ms·

Why Apple's Taptic engine in the iPhone 6S is more important than 3D touch

34 points by thealexknapp 11y ago

arrrg 11y ago
The iPhone, also the new one, doesn't create any tactile feedback besides just feeling like a vibrating device. It's a much more subtle and precise and pleasant vibration than on my current device (iPhone 6) on the new 6s but it's not really a big change. No quantum leap. (Can I just say that I really hate people who dislike that metaphor? A quantum leap is a discontinuous and surprising change, not necessarily a massive one. It's more appropriate to describe a qualitative difference, not a quantitative one. As such it doesn't really matter that in reality a quantum leap is a tiny distance, what matters is that it's discontinuous, with no steps in between. That's what the metaphor is playing at. Something that seems familiar weirdly ends up in a suprising place it has no right to be. Not without being somewhere else in between first.) On the MacBooks that same technology most certainly is a quantum leap: on the trackpads it actually feels like clicking down a physical button. On the phones that same sensation is not created. Not at all, not even a little tiny bit. My hypothesis is that with the trackpad your only point of contact with a vibrating surface is the tip of your finger. With the phones you feel the whole device vibrating in your hand. That should make it harder to fool your brain into thinking you are holding anything but a vibrating device. I will have to lay the new iPhones flat on a table and test it out when I get the opportunity, maybe they would feel differently. (But even if they could create that feeling while flat on the table iPhones are probably set up differently than MacBook trackpads and more tuned to just create a pleasant vibration, since that's all they normally can do in your hand.) All that said, yeah, real tactile feedback, if it can be pulled of convincingly, provides some neat perspectives for touch interfaces.
- alphakappa 11y ago
  Try putting the phone on a surface and press down on one of the system apps (like say, Maps) to get tactile feedback that is distinct from a vibration.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - spinningarrow 11y ago
    I don't know if I'm the only one but I just tried that and it still felt distinctly vibration-y.
- madeofpalk 11y ago
  Also, the Macbook trackpads do still 'give way' and have a bit of travel in them. I would imagine that helps with the 'illusion'.
  - zwily 11y ago
    The new ones don't have any travel.
    - bahro 11y ago
      They do, a little bit, though.
      - Sidnicious 11y ago
        They don’t. It’s simulated with force feedback. Try clicking with the machine turned off.
        Stratoscope 11y ago
        The new touchpad definitely has physical travel. I turned mine off and pressed various spots on it. The "click" went away, of course, but the travel is clearly visible around the edges of the touchpad.
        bontaq 11y ago
        That was a truly confusing experience the first time I clicked when the machine was off. The click was a lie, yet I swore I felt mechanical travel.
        nnutter 11y ago
        Another fun way to test is to press with your nail compared to pressing with your finger tip.
        bitmapbrother 11y ago
        Yes, they do and the travel is easily seen. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwOcWuAbuxs&t=2m40s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwOcWuAbuxs&t=2m40s
- mimiflynn 11y ago
  Why the need for a quantum leap? Evolution has worked okay for its little steps.
  - ctdonath 11y ago
    There are some steps which evolution can't achieve, requiring steps thru self-destructive configurations to reach a superior productive state. Making the leap from one to another without having to survive the middle is necessary to longer progress. That's kinda the point of genetic engineering: just make the changes we need NOW, rather than trying to persuade progress on a natural path nobody wants to take.
    - doomrobo 11y ago
      One example I particularly like is why there aren't animals that roll as their primary method of transportation. The steps in between walking and perfect roundness are so disadvantageous that mutations in that direction would probably be the death of that individual (imagine a square armadillo). If an animal was genetically engineered to be able to roll without all the steps I'm between, it might make them even more fit than their non-mutated cousins.
      - Someone 11y ago
        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Rolling_animals https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Rolling_animals Video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmLS2WXZQxU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmLS2WXZQxU. I think you won't find animals that use rolling as their primary method. Problems is that for feet, you need a patch of relatively flat surface every footstep. For wheels, you need a continuous stretch, or you need a design that can withstand impacts. Small animals have an advantage there, as gravity isn't as harsh on them as on larger animals. And of course, there's Pedalternorotandomovens Centroculatus Articulosus (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curl-up https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curl-up)
        doomrobo 11y ago
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
chvid 11y ago
I don't understand the fuzz about 3d touch. I haven't seen the new phone in real life but as far as I can see from the press IOS9 has introduced a context menu exclusively for 6S - but could that now have been done using the existing hardware and thus for all models? Ie. by triggering the context menu with double tap, long tap, tap and slide up or something?
- steve-benjamins 11y ago
  As soon as I tried "peeks" I understood 3d touch. It felt like a pretty dramatic UI improvement.
- ctdonath 11y ago
  Long taps are annoying. You want to do something NOW, but have to waaaaiiiittt for it. Much more satisfying to press hard and get the same response.
- mikeash 11y ago
  Regular touch gestures are like a one-button mouse. You can do everything with it, but it's nice to have some extra buttons.
  - chvid 11y ago
    Why the down votes? This is an honest question. It is a classical critism of context menus that they are hidden and their presence needs to be learned. This problem obviously gets worse here as the context menu is only present in the latest hardware. From a business perspective it makes sense: You are selling a package and the extra software feature is given to those pay for the update. But whether it is good design - that is another question. And as a curiosity: Context menus are used much less in Mac OS than Windows. There is only a single button on an Apple laptop and Apple went on for decades with the one-button mouse for their desktop computers, only to introduce a multi-button mouse very late.
    - muddi900 11y ago
      Apple did advertise universal apps AND games, but all the devices have different control interfaces.
digi_owl 11y ago
This article is a demonstration of what i mean with how Apple get attention in media that other tech companies does not. His one article about another phone in the archive is at first glance about the Moto X Pure, yet it quickly ends up talking about phone ergonomics in general. And other than iPhone he his articles are about biology in various forms, even when supposedly bringing up Pixars (memory).

34 points by thealexknapp 11y ago

arrrg 11y ago

The iPhone, also the new one, doesn't create any tactile feedback besides just feeling like a vibrating device. It's a much more subtle and precise and pleasant vibration than on my current device (iPhone 6) on the new 6s but it's not really a big change. No quantum leap. (Can I just say that I really hate people who dislike that metaphor? A quantum leap is a discontinuous and surprising change, not necessarily a massive one. It's more appropriate to describe a qualitative difference, not a quantitative one. As such it doesn't really matter that in reality a quantum leap is a tiny distance, what matters is that it's discontinuous, with no steps in between. That's what the metaphor is playing at. Something that seems familiar weirdly ends up in a suprising place it has no right to be. Not without being somewhere else in between first.) On the MacBooks that same technology most certainly is a quantum leap: on the trackpads it actually feels like clicking down a physical button. On the phones that same sensation is not created. Not at all, not even a little tiny bit. My hypothesis is that with the trackpad your only point of contact with a vibrating surface is the tip of your finger. With the phones you feel the whole device vibrating in your hand. That should make it harder to fool your brain into thinking you are holding anything but a vibrating device. I will have to lay the new iPhones flat on a table and test it out when I get the opportunity, maybe they would feel differently. (But even if they could create that feeling while flat on the table iPhones are probably set up differently than MacBook trackpads and more tuned to just create a pleasant vibration, since that's all they normally can do in your hand.) All that said, yeah, real tactile feedback, if it can be pulled of convincingly, provides some neat perspectives for touch interfaces.

alphakappa 11y ago
Try putting the phone on a surface and press down on one of the system apps (like say, Maps) to get tactile feedback that is distinct from a vibration.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- spinningarrow 11y ago
  I don't know if I'm the only one but I just tried that and it still felt distinctly vibration-y.
madeofpalk 11y ago
Also, the Macbook trackpads do still 'give way' and have a bit of travel in them. I would imagine that helps with the 'illusion'.
- zwily 11y ago
  The new ones don't have any travel.
  - bahro 11y ago
    They do, a little bit, though.
    - Sidnicious 11y ago
      They don’t. It’s simulated with force feedback. Try clicking with the machine turned off.
      - Stratoscope 11y ago
        The new touchpad definitely has physical travel. I turned mine off and pressed various spots on it. The "click" went away, of course, but the travel is clearly visible around the edges of the touchpad.
      - bontaq 11y ago
        That was a truly confusing experience the first time I clicked when the machine was off. The click was a lie, yet I swore I felt mechanical travel.
      - nnutter 11y ago
        Another fun way to test is to press with your nail compared to pressing with your finger tip.
      - bitmapbrother 11y ago
        Yes, they do and the travel is easily seen. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwOcWuAbuxs&t=2m40s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwOcWuAbuxs&t=2m40s
mimiflynn 11y ago
Why the need for a quantum leap? Evolution has worked okay for its little steps.
- ctdonath 11y ago
  There are some steps which evolution can't achieve, requiring steps thru self-destructive configurations to reach a superior productive state. Making the leap from one to another without having to survive the middle is necessary to longer progress. That's kinda the point of genetic engineering: just make the changes we need NOW, rather than trying to persuade progress on a natural path nobody wants to take.
  - doomrobo 11y ago
    One example I particularly like is why there aren't animals that roll as their primary method of transportation. The steps in between walking and perfect roundness are so disadvantageous that mutations in that direction would probably be the death of that individual (imagine a square armadillo). If an animal was genetically engineered to be able to roll without all the steps I'm between, it might make them even more fit than their non-mutated cousins.
    - Someone 11y ago
      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Rolling_animals https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Rolling_animals Video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmLS2WXZQxU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmLS2WXZQxU. I think you won't find animals that use rolling as their primary method. Problems is that for feet, you need a patch of relatively flat surface every footstep. For wheels, you need a continuous stretch, or you need a design that can withstand impacts. Small animals have an advantage there, as gravity isn't as harsh on them as on larger animals. And of course, there's Pedalternorotandomovens Centroculatus Articulosus (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curl-up https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curl-up)
      - doomrobo 11y ago
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

chvid 11y ago

I don't understand the fuzz about 3d touch. I haven't seen the new phone in real life but as far as I can see from the press IOS9 has introduced a context menu exclusively for 6S - but could that now have been done using the existing hardware and thus for all models? Ie. by triggering the context menu with double tap, long tap, tap and slide up or something?

steve-benjamins 11y ago
As soon as I tried "peeks" I understood 3d touch. It felt like a pretty dramatic UI improvement.
ctdonath 11y ago
Long taps are annoying. You want to do something NOW, but have to waaaaiiiittt for it. Much more satisfying to press hard and get the same response.
mikeash 11y ago
Regular touch gestures are like a one-button mouse. You can do everything with it, but it's nice to have some extra buttons.
- chvid 11y ago
  Why the down votes? This is an honest question. It is a classical critism of context menus that they are hidden and their presence needs to be learned. This problem obviously gets worse here as the context menu is only present in the latest hardware. From a business perspective it makes sense: You are selling a package and the extra software feature is given to those pay for the update. But whether it is good design - that is another question. And as a curiosity: Context menus are used much less in Mac OS than Windows. There is only a single button on an Apple laptop and Apple went on for decades with the one-button mouse for their desktop computers, only to introduce a multi-button mouse very late.
  - muddi900 11y ago
    Apple did advertise universal apps AND games, but all the devices have different control interfaces.

digi_owl 11y ago

This article is a demonstration of what i mean with how Apple get attention in media that other tech companies does not. His one article about another phone in the archive is at first glance about the Moto X Pure, yet it quickly ends up talking about phone ergonomics in general. And other than iPhone he his articles are about biology in various forms, even when supposedly bringing up Pixars (memory).