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"All of the competitors—and this will come as a shock—are men, or at least on their way to becoming men. They’re not the healthiest-looking bunch, with an avera

"All of the competitors—and this will come as a shock—are men, or at least on their way to becoming men. They’re not the healthiest-looking bunch, with an average weight that appears to be no more than 120 pounds. There's a disturbingly stereotypical assortment of ticks, both verbal and gesticular, as well as bowl haircuts, wan faces, and shabby clothes. Mark Zuckerberg would look like an Adonis in this room." Glad to see the mainstream media is continuing its feminist critique of technology by holding tech workers to traditional norms of masculinity.

douche 11y ago
Interesting. Dumpy, overweight programmers aren't a thing anymore?
- tbrake 11y ago
  I'm trying to bring it back.
- kragen 11y ago
  if you abuse your body with bad food and no exercise, you tend to be skinny and weak when you're a teenager, then dumpy and overweight when you get old. brogrammers exist but mostly aren't good enough to compete in programming contests.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
- grossvogel 11y ago
  I read that to mean that some of the cis male individuals being described were very young.
- ninkendo 11y ago
  I think the sentence means that they're so young they're not men yet (think "adolescent males".) It could mean what you're implying, but I think it's fairer to not jump to that conclusion.
- douche 11y ago
  I think this is more a reflection of the stereotype of the barely-pubescent tech wizard.
vezzy-fnord 11y ago
I think more pertinently, the entire article seems to be designed to portray the participants as negatively as possible without coming across as totally acerbic. The whole subject and the people in it are treated as jokes, ending in a few dry factoids that destroy the article's established, cynical mood.
- Jabbles 11y ago
  "His friends explain that he mostly shuns the press after [being insulted, and we'll repeat the insult here]." Mean, or at least tactless.
  - kragen 11y ago
    it seems like he made a good choice by shunning ashlee vance, the reporter who wrote this article.
vinceguidry 11y ago
Gender norms also happen to be "biological markers of health and success" norms. I don't think light social pressure to eat better, get more exercise, work on your social self is a bad thing.
- throwit542 11y ago
  Frankly, I agree with you and I exercise regularly. But I find it hard to interpret the snide comments in this article (or in many others) as honest health recommendations and not as a concerted effort to portray the members of this industry as low status. Perhaps I'm wrong and perhaps you are right to give it a more charitable interpretation.
  - kragen 11y ago
    no, i think your interpretation is entirely correct. maybe we could exert some light social pressure on people like ashlee vance to learn some social skills and respect for other human beings, especially human beings engaged in demanding creative activities.
- mycelium 11y ago
  http://denisbider.blogspot.com/2015/08/attractiveness-is-not-shallow.html http://denisbider.blogspot.com/2015/08/attractiveness-is-not...
noname123 11y ago
This. Completely agree. Once I had a conversation with a female designer who organizes "Design hackathons" who said that she "gets disrespected on a regular basis" during meetup with "male participants." I actually agree with her on that point and can empathize with her. However later on, she went on in a different context of conversation, to discount someone in her coding school program and justified how he is fast learner by his background: "he is just one of those computer nerds" and derided some job opportunities the group was discussing as some "stupid code monkey job". IMHO, American society's left coast isn't progressive nor liberal but wants to feel progressive. I attended a extremely liberal and elite school in New England, and everyone on campus said the right things and some even did the right superficial things - but when it came to most sensitive things, dating/career/loyalty, everyone instinctively reverted back to the most base human tribal instinct. In my early twenties, I used to feel upset and somewhat betrayed by my sullied idealism. But I got over it and realized that I am not special snowflake, and whatever difficulties, prejudices against me is nothing in context to other people's in history, better time could be used for me to learn and better myself (than sulking and railing with the "misery loves company" "social justice warrior"/"MRA"crowd on Facebook); and accumulate skills every day. The same people who think a person is "just a 120lb nerd" or a "dumb jock" will be the same crowd that will "like" Facebook post about a "Science is Cool" post about a paper that the said nerd publishes later on, and likewise for the "jock"'s accomplishment dumbed down for the social media format. Hence people's need to "feel good," and need to not want to "feel bad" during the years it takes to be actually "good."
nailer 11y ago
It's garbage, but just flag it and move on. Wired (and sites like Gawker and Vox) make money from baiting their readers with stuff like this and then showing them ads.
jeffreyrogers 11y ago
Those aren't norms of masculinity. They're signs of being healthy and socially well adjusted.
- WorldWideWayne 11y ago
  A certain type of haircut and an arbitrary weight are signs of being healthy and socially well adjusted?
  - jeffreyrogers 11y ago
    Yes. It is unusual for a healthy male to weigh 120 pounds unless they are much shorter than average. Similarly it is unusual for a person with well developed social skills to dress poorly and have nervous tics.
- tomp 11y ago
  Imagine if the article said instead that "all were women, with an average weight over 200 pounds, with an assortment of short hair, unshaved underarms and nose rings".

douche 11y ago

Interesting. Dumpy, overweight programmers aren't a thing anymore?

tbrake 11y ago
I'm trying to bring it back.
kragen 11y ago
if you abuse your body with bad food and no exercise, you tend to be skinny and weak when you're a teenager, then dumpy and overweight when you get old. brogrammers exist but mostly aren't good enough to compete in programming contests.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

grossvogel 11y ago
I read that to mean that some of the cis male individuals being described were very young.
ninkendo 11y ago
I think the sentence means that they're so young they're not men yet (think "adolescent males".) It could mean what you're implying, but I think it's fairer to not jump to that conclusion.
douche 11y ago
I think this is more a reflection of the stereotype of the barely-pubescent tech wizard.

vezzy-fnord 11y ago

I think more pertinently, the entire article seems to be designed to portray the participants as negatively as possible without coming across as totally acerbic. The whole subject and the people in it are treated as jokes, ending in a few dry factoids that destroy the article's established, cynical mood.

Jabbles 11y ago
"His friends explain that he mostly shuns the press after [being insulted, and we'll repeat the insult here]." Mean, or at least tactless.
- kragen 11y ago
  it seems like he made a good choice by shunning ashlee vance, the reporter who wrote this article.

vinceguidry 11y ago

Gender norms also happen to be "biological markers of health and success" norms. I don't think light social pressure to eat better, get more exercise, work on your social self is a bad thing.

throwit542 11y ago
Frankly, I agree with you and I exercise regularly. But I find it hard to interpret the snide comments in this article (or in many others) as honest health recommendations and not as a concerted effort to portray the members of this industry as low status. Perhaps I'm wrong and perhaps you are right to give it a more charitable interpretation.
- kragen 11y ago
  no, i think your interpretation is entirely correct. maybe we could exert some light social pressure on people like ashlee vance to learn some social skills and respect for other human beings, especially human beings engaged in demanding creative activities.
mycelium 11y ago
http://denisbider.blogspot.com/2015/08/attractiveness-is-not-shallow.html http://denisbider.blogspot.com/2015/08/attractiveness-is-not...

noname123 11y ago

This. Completely agree. Once I had a conversation with a female designer who organizes "Design hackathons" who said that she "gets disrespected on a regular basis" during meetup with "male participants." I actually agree with her on that point and can empathize with her. However later on, she went on in a different context of conversation, to discount someone in her coding school program and justified how he is fast learner by his background: "he is just one of those computer nerds" and derided some job opportunities the group was discussing as some "stupid code monkey job". IMHO, American society's left coast isn't progressive nor liberal but wants to feel progressive. I attended a extremely liberal and elite school in New England, and everyone on campus said the right things and some even did the right superficial things - but when it came to most sensitive things, dating/career/loyalty, everyone instinctively reverted back to the most base human tribal instinct. In my early twenties, I used to feel upset and somewhat betrayed by my sullied idealism. But I got over it and realized that I am not special snowflake, and whatever difficulties, prejudices against me is nothing in context to other people's in history, better time could be used for me to learn and better myself (than sulking and railing with the "misery loves company" "social justice warrior"/"MRA"crowd on Facebook); and accumulate skills every day. The same people who think a person is "just a 120lb nerd" or a "dumb jock" will be the same crowd that will "like" Facebook post about a "Science is Cool" post about a paper that the said nerd publishes later on, and likewise for the "jock"'s accomplishment dumbed down for the social media format. Hence people's need to "feel good," and need to not want to "feel bad" during the years it takes to be actually "good."

nailer 11y ago

It's garbage, but just flag it and move on. Wired (and sites like Gawker and Vox) make money from baiting their readers with stuff like this and then showing them ads.

jeffreyrogers 11y ago

Those aren't norms of masculinity. They're signs of being healthy and socially well adjusted.

WorldWideWayne 11y ago
A certain type of haircut and an arbitrary weight are signs of being healthy and socially well adjusted?
- jeffreyrogers 11y ago
  Yes. It is unusual for a healthy male to weigh 120 pounds unless they are much shorter than average. Similarly it is unusual for a person with well developed social skills to dress poorly and have nervous tics.
tomp 11y ago
Imagine if the article said instead that "all were women, with an average weight over 200 pounds, with an assortment of short hair, unshaved underarms and nose rings".