5 ms·

Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway. —Tanenbaum, Andrew S. (1989). Computer Networks.

by oska 11y ago

nickpsecurity 11y ago
A blast from the past. I mailed DVD-R's and flash storage because the price per GB was pretty good. No hackers, either. I later found that this wasn't a unique idea: supercomputing and big corporate players often mailed whole HD's of data to cut cost of WAN links. A trick that it pays to never forget in case one of the benefits appear.
- toomuchtodo 11y ago
  Toshiba is predicting 128TB flash drives by 2018. You'll be able to ship all of Netflix in a box across the world in a day.
  - Houshalter 11y ago
    You can already fit all the Netflix movies into a space much smaller than a phone: http://memkite.com/blog/2014/04/01/technical-feasibility-of-building-hitchikers-guide-to-the-galaxy-i-e-offline-web-search-part-i/ http://memkite.com/blog/2014/04/01/technical-feasibility-of-... It's only 5-24 terrabytes. That's not including tv shows, which would make it much bigger. But even those would still be small enough to fit it in a small box.
    - toomuchtodo 11y ago
      I think the content addressable web is going to help the web bloom in places it's not currently accessible. Take something like the Netflix open connect appliance, preload with a couple hundred TB, plug it in and have it start announcing content in locations with poor network connectivity. EDIT: Thinking about this more, it becomes almost like S3 for all web content. Each piece of content can be addressed with its SHA hash, disparate nodes can increase the number of replicas based on demand, etc. IPFS, I'm pulling even harder for you now!
      - digi_owl 11y ago
        Don't torrents pretty much offer that already?
        toomuchtodo 11y ago
        They get us mostly there. The rest of the way is how you combine getting that data into a browser. Subresource Integrity [1] includes the hash of the content/object in the link to the resource, as well as the URL/URI; this lets you do fun things like not fetch duplicate content if its already in the browser's cache from another site (think a specific version of jquery, for example). Magnet links [2] are a great example of this in practice, but that's bittorrent-specific (although I would not be surprised if you started to see ideas from Magnet URI scheme work their way into Subresource Integrity): "The Magnet URI scheme is a de facto standard defining a uniform resource identifier (URI) scheme for Magnet links, which mainly refer to resources available for download via peer-to-peer networks. Such a link typically identifies a file not by location, but by content—more precisely, by the content's cryptographic hash value. Since it specifies a file based on content or metadata, rather than by location, a Magnet link can be considered a kind of Uniform Resource Name, rather than the more common Uniform Resource Locators. Although it could be used for other applications, it is particularly useful in a peer-to-peer context, because it allows resources to be referred to without the need for a continuously available host." Github has a great explanation as well: http://githubengineering.com/subresource-integrity/ http://githubengineering.com/subresource-integrity/ [1] http://www.w3.org/TR/SRI/ http://www.w3.org/TR/SRI/ [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnet_URI_scheme https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnet_URI_scheme
        digi_owl 11y ago
        So something like rather than putting a URL inside a img tag, one could perhaps put a magnet URI, and wait while the browser trawled supported P2P services for said image? On that note, there as an article posted here on HN a while ago about Gopher. And at that point i found myself wondering if Gopher could have been modified or extended to handle such a scheme.
    - nickpsecurity 11y ago
      There's theory and practice. Theory: you can fit Netflix on a phone. Practice: you can't by far. That's unlikely to change unless you own EDA companies, memory fabs, content industry, and whole supply chains. Your link must be a pitch for a company's offerings instead of anything remotely like your claim. Good luck on that, though, as it sounds interesting. ;)
      - digi_owl 11y ago
        That brings to mind an anecdote i ran into in relation to copyright. Apparently a startup was attempting to offer a cloud PVR service, but then ran into the MPAA. Before the encounter the company was planning to use de-duplication to keep storage expenses down. But that was nixed by the MPAA lawyers. They insisted that each customer had his own, encrypted, storage area. Anything else would be considered a broadcast service, requiring a very expensive license agreement. At that point i think the company founders basically threw they arms up in exasperation and shut the company down.
        rahimnathwani 11y ago
        I think you're talking about Aereo. The story was longer and more complicated than that. They put up a decent fight, and bowed out. But this isn't the end of the matter for cloud-based 'cable operators': http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/07/17/us-filmon-copyright-ruling-idUSKCN0PR02620150717 http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/07/17/us-filmon-copyrigh...
        digi_owl 11y ago
        As best i recall, it came up in relation to news about that. But it was not about Aereo directly. It seemed to have been a company getting ready to offer their service, and wanted to clear things with the MPAA (or the MPAA lawyers showed up unannounced). Only to find it impossible to both hit their planned price level and meet MPAA storage management demands. This because the MPAA demands basically meant they had to massively inflate their storage capacity, and thus the hardware cost pr customer made them uncompetitive with existing PVR products.
- digi_owl 11y ago
  First off, i recall reading a blog entry or article about someone who owned an Amiga 500 in the UK in the 90s. Back then you had various glossy magazines around, complete with a classifieds section in the back. Apparently one use of those was to offer a like for like copying service. Meaning that you put up an ad and people would mail you floppies of various games and software, along with a list of same they hoped to get in return. Apparently it eventually snowballed to the point where he had invested in a second floppy drive just to speed up the copying process, and ended up spending whole weekends switching floppies and stuffing envelopes. Eventually he got so fed up he started returning envelopes unopened. Secondly, i think Amazon accept Fedex-ed HDDs for their cloud services. In case the amount of data to be uploaded would take unreasonably long otherwise.
  - omribahumi 11y ago
    They do: https://aws.amazon.com/importexport/ https://aws.amazon.com/importexport/
  - evook 11y ago
    It's very common for a dco to accept physically shipped storage. There are a lot cases, where it is either cheaper, or securer to hand deliver data when it is not possible due to peering issues to establish a non MitM-able connection.
  - nickpsecurity 11y ago
    That's funny stuff. Especially returning them unopened lol.

Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway. —Tanenbaum, Andrew S. (1989). Computer Networks.

by oska 11y ago

Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway. —Tanenbaum, Andrew S. (1989). Computer Networks.

nickpsecurity 11y ago

A blast from the past. I mailed DVD-R's and flash storage because the price per GB was pretty good. No hackers, either. I later found that this wasn't a unique idea: supercomputing and big corporate players often mailed whole HD's of data to cut cost of WAN links. A trick that it pays to never forget in case one of the benefits appear.

toomuchtodo 11y ago
Toshiba is predicting 128TB flash drives by 2018. You'll be able to ship all of Netflix in a box across the world in a day.
- Houshalter 11y ago
  You can already fit all the Netflix movies into a space much smaller than a phone: http://memkite.com/blog/2014/04/01/technical-feasibility-of-building-hitchikers-guide-to-the-galaxy-i-e-offline-web-search-part-i/ http://memkite.com/blog/2014/04/01/technical-feasibility-of-... It's only 5-24 terrabytes. That's not including tv shows, which would make it much bigger. But even those would still be small enough to fit it in a small box.
  - toomuchtodo 11y ago
    I think the content addressable web is going to help the web bloom in places it's not currently accessible. Take something like the Netflix open connect appliance, preload with a couple hundred TB, plug it in and have it start announcing content in locations with poor network connectivity. EDIT: Thinking about this more, it becomes almost like S3 for all web content. Each piece of content can be addressed with its SHA hash, disparate nodes can increase the number of replicas based on demand, etc. IPFS, I'm pulling even harder for you now!
    - digi_owl 11y ago
      Don't torrents pretty much offer that already?
      - toomuchtodo 11y ago
        They get us mostly there. The rest of the way is how you combine getting that data into a browser. Subresource Integrity [1] includes the hash of the content/object in the link to the resource, as well as the URL/URI; this lets you do fun things like not fetch duplicate content if its already in the browser's cache from another site (think a specific version of jquery, for example). Magnet links [2] are a great example of this in practice, but that's bittorrent-specific (although I would not be surprised if you started to see ideas from Magnet URI scheme work their way into Subresource Integrity): "The Magnet URI scheme is a de facto standard defining a uniform resource identifier (URI) scheme for Magnet links, which mainly refer to resources available for download via peer-to-peer networks. Such a link typically identifies a file not by location, but by content—more precisely, by the content's cryptographic hash value. Since it specifies a file based on content or metadata, rather than by location, a Magnet link can be considered a kind of Uniform Resource Name, rather than the more common Uniform Resource Locators. Although it could be used for other applications, it is particularly useful in a peer-to-peer context, because it allows resources to be referred to without the need for a continuously available host." Github has a great explanation as well: http://githubengineering.com/subresource-integrity/ http://githubengineering.com/subresource-integrity/ [1] http://www.w3.org/TR/SRI/ http://www.w3.org/TR/SRI/ [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnet_URI_scheme https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnet_URI_scheme
        digi_owl 11y ago
        So something like rather than putting a URL inside a img tag, one could perhaps put a magnet URI, and wait while the browser trawled supported P2P services for said image? On that note, there as an article posted here on HN a while ago about Gopher. And at that point i found myself wondering if Gopher could have been modified or extended to handle such a scheme.
  - nickpsecurity 11y ago
    There's theory and practice. Theory: you can fit Netflix on a phone. Practice: you can't by far. That's unlikely to change unless you own EDA companies, memory fabs, content industry, and whole supply chains. Your link must be a pitch for a company's offerings instead of anything remotely like your claim. Good luck on that, though, as it sounds interesting. ;)
    - digi_owl 11y ago
      That brings to mind an anecdote i ran into in relation to copyright. Apparently a startup was attempting to offer a cloud PVR service, but then ran into the MPAA. Before the encounter the company was planning to use de-duplication to keep storage expenses down. But that was nixed by the MPAA lawyers. They insisted that each customer had his own, encrypted, storage area. Anything else would be considered a broadcast service, requiring a very expensive license agreement. At that point i think the company founders basically threw they arms up in exasperation and shut the company down.
      - rahimnathwani 11y ago
        I think you're talking about Aereo. The story was longer and more complicated than that. They put up a decent fight, and bowed out. But this isn't the end of the matter for cloud-based 'cable operators': http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/07/17/us-filmon-copyright-ruling-idUSKCN0PR02620150717 http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/07/17/us-filmon-copyrigh...
        digi_owl 11y ago
        As best i recall, it came up in relation to news about that. But it was not about Aereo directly. It seemed to have been a company getting ready to offer their service, and wanted to clear things with the MPAA (or the MPAA lawyers showed up unannounced). Only to find it impossible to both hit their planned price level and meet MPAA storage management demands. This because the MPAA demands basically meant they had to massively inflate their storage capacity, and thus the hardware cost pr customer made them uncompetitive with existing PVR products.
digi_owl 11y ago
First off, i recall reading a blog entry or article about someone who owned an Amiga 500 in the UK in the 90s. Back then you had various glossy magazines around, complete with a classifieds section in the back. Apparently one use of those was to offer a like for like copying service. Meaning that you put up an ad and people would mail you floppies of various games and software, along with a list of same they hoped to get in return. Apparently it eventually snowballed to the point where he had invested in a second floppy drive just to speed up the copying process, and ended up spending whole weekends switching floppies and stuffing envelopes. Eventually he got so fed up he started returning envelopes unopened. Secondly, i think Amazon accept Fedex-ed HDDs for their cloud services. In case the amount of data to be uploaded would take unreasonably long otherwise.
- omribahumi 11y ago
  They do: https://aws.amazon.com/importexport/ https://aws.amazon.com/importexport/
- evook 11y ago
  It's very common for a dco to accept physically shipped storage. There are a lot cases, where it is either cheaper, or securer to hand deliver data when it is not possible due to peering issues to establish a non MitM-able connection.
- nickpsecurity 11y ago
  That's funny stuff. Especially returning them unopened lol.