5 ms·

Here's the thing I don't understand -- if the main attraction (from a customer point of view) is the app (with everything that comes with it), why haven't the c

by derekp7 11y ago

Here's the thing I don't understand -- if the main attraction (from a customer point of view) is the app (with everything that comes with it), why haven't the cab companies got in on the same game? Either put out their own app to hail rides (and maybe give their cabs a more luxury look to them), or sign up as Uber/Lyft drivers themselves? Or is there something I'm missing?

Meekro 11y ago
They have: https://gocurb.com https://gocurb.com They've been doing it for a while -- this app used to be Taxi Magic. It's slower to respond than Uber, and more expensive.
- stephengillie 11y ago
  I've seen more than a few cabs in Seattle with "Use the APP" on the side. Every cab company has a different app. Uber did start the shift to using apps instead of hailing or calling cabs. Now, the idea is in the "fragmentation stage" with the early adopters, where everyone and their brother has developed a different app. Once some of the underperfomers fade away, there will hopefully be more centralization when late adopter customers start using this market.
- sguha 11y ago
  Taxi prices are set by the city https://www.sfmta.com/getting-around/taxi/taxi-rates https://www.sfmta.com/getting-around/taxi/taxi-rates while Uber/Lyft can set their own prices. Maybe taxis should be able to lower their prices and surge up with demand to even the playing field.
- smsm42 11y ago
  For what it worth, I used that a number of times when I was in Portland, and it worked just fine for me. Can't compare the prices, having no basis to compare with, but I don't remember the prices being outrageous. In general, if Uber drags the taxi industry kicking and screaming into 21st century, it's a win-win.
panorama 11y ago
In my opinion, the major benefit of Uber/Lyft is also the accountability. Having an easily-accessible paper trail of who my drivers were ensures I won't fret about losing things. If I have a poor experience, my rating actually matters and poor drivers are kicked off of the platform. If my Uber driver longhauls me (< 1% chance IME), I can get a refund by complaining to Uber support. Longhauling is more common among cab drivers AND there's no convenient way to get your money back. No accountability or recourse in traditional cabs.
santaclaus 11y ago
This probably varies a lot between cities, but the main appeal of Uber in Portland is reliability. I would love to keep it local and all, but the local cab companies (cough Radio Cab cough) would often show up hours late, if at all, even when reservations were booked a day in advance. Without a car and with public transit closed in the wee hours of the morning, cabs were my only incredibly unreliable option for getting to the airport. With Uber and Lyft I have never had issues getting to the airpot at odd hours.
- FlannelPancake 11y ago
  It was a similar story in Seattle. Frequently you'd call both yellow cab and orange cab (the two major cab companies) because you only expected one of them to show up within a reasonable time frame (which of course only exacerbated the problem).
austenallred 11y ago
I think when you say "the app" you really mean "the convenience of not having to hail a cab" specifically. The app is a game changer, but not for that reason. Not having to hail is nice, but that's only the tip of the iceberg. For example, a couple of days ago I took an Uber. The driver that picked me up was a student. I asked him why he was driving, and he said, "Oh, well I came [to this city] to hang out with my friends, but they can't do anything for another hour. So I decided to do a few rides while I wait." Uber was able to take the unused potential of someone just messing around in a city and use them to pick me up. They are able to do that because they can watch everything that happens via the app. If someone tries to screw you over and take a long route if you're new to the city, Uber gives you a refund and the driver doesn't get paid. If the driver is driving like a maniac on bald tires while they talk on their phone, you can give them a low rating. Enough of those and they get kicked off of the service entirely. In other words, instead of an expensive and burdensome network of licensing and regulations, Uber was able to better regulate what was happening using technology. The first time I ever took an Uber a driver came and picked me up, opened the door for me, gave me a water bottle and some candy, turned on the music I like, and was very safe and professional. And the whole thing cost less than a taxi. I haven't been in a taxi since. So the app is the main attraction, but not because you can hail a car (though that's nice, especially when you're in underserved areas). It's because the app allows Uber to create a completely different economy around the supply and demand of ridesharing.
- unKlever 11y ago
  I think the parent was talking about supply side. I think you are totally correct but, I find myself not satisfied with the answer. All legitimate cab companies should puf money into hiring a company to build a sinple app to connect them to legal taxis. You pay, you get on the app. Tagline, "as convenient as uber, only legal". It would be a hell of a lot cheaper than funding lawyers and lobbyists like they have been.
  - ericflo 11y ago
    http://flywheel.com/ http://flywheel.com/ it's been around for quite a while and I remember seeing a ton of ads for them
x0x0 11y ago
in sf, specifically, the taxi companies are utter shit (and evil, to boot). I badly broke my leg and, because I lived too far from public transportation to crutch over, had to take taxis to work 4-5 times a week, often both ways. No taxi company in sf will reliably come, even if you make it clear that you are going to take a cab at least 4 days a week for most of the next year. Instead, even when you are in the middle of the mission in a relatively dense location and going to soma, dispatch simply lies and says "10 to 15 minutes". A 95% wait time was 3 hours, and a 85% time was 1 hour 15 minutes, for what should be an approximately 15 minute drive. Even simple requests like calling a couple minutes before the taxi arrives so I could get down 2 flights of stairs on crutches without detaining the driver or having the driver leave couldn't be followed. Needless to say, this causes significant disruption to your life when you have to leave 90 minutes plus the length of the drive before going somewhere if you want to have any hope of reliably getting there on time. And god forbid you have to see your surgeon or something else with a hard deadline. The taxi services should be ashamed of themselves, and frankly participated in a violation of my civil rights as done by a quasi-governmental monopoly. And there are other issues: when I would occasionally have to pay with a card, the meter would suddenly be broken until you made it clear drivers had two choices: call the card in or not get paid. A fucking miracle would occur, and the card reader would start working. The taxi system literally shat on their customers. The advantage of uber is simple: when requested, they either come, or say they won't. That allows you to be an adult and either make alternative arrangements or tell the other party you'll be late. I used uber even when they cost 2x as much as a cab just for this reason. In conclusion, fuck taxis. Also, fuck sf. Only in sf is "a taxi that comes" a disruptive service.
- norikki 11y ago
  I love the 'But Uber is illegal!' argument. A government protected industry is forced to face real competition after years of ignoring their customers needs. Boo Hoo.
  - anarazel 11y ago
    Maybe I've a rather european perspective on this: But most of the arguments around Uber's services not being entirely legal here are around the kind of driver's license and such. At least in Germany, and I'm fairly certain it's the same in a couple neigbhouring countries, there's two things to driving a cab in a city: 1) Special kind of driver's permit that allows you to transport passengers in a commercial setting. That includes a background check, medical, and some lower limits how many traffic infractions you can have than a normal driver's license 2) A permit to drive a cab in a specific city/area. To me requiring a special kind of driver's license to transport passengers makes a fair amount of sense iff it's reasonably easy to get. Uber doesn't require that for UberX, which is the main point of conflict in many of the trials Uber lost over here.
smelendez 11y ago
Some cab companies do have their own apps, or sign up with national "e-hail" app vendors. In my experience in a number of US cities, these apps get terrible reviews in the App Store/Google Play because they're borderline unusable. They often don't have all the features of Uber and Lyft, like letting you track the cab while it's on its way to you or even handling payment through the app, and they're often poorly designed and even prone to crashing. My guess is that cab companies want an app that will feed into their existing dispatch workflow, with the limitations that entails. They probably also have no experience picking IT vendors, negotiating with them or evaluating apps. Also, lots of local cab company owners and medallion holders are probably skeptical that they can compete or profitably do business with a worldwide, hypercompetitive billion-dollar taxi company. It's not easy running a local discount store when Walmart opens across town, but it's not necessarily any easier for a small supplier trying to sell through Walmart.
- smsm42 11y ago
  > In my experience in a number of US cities, these apps get terrible reviews in the App Store/Google Play because they're borderline unusable. Looks like an opening for some very profitable startup :)
vas1 11y ago
Here in Toronto, Uber is much cheaper then a cab and only reaches cab prices when surge pricing kicks in: http://www.moneysense.ca/spend/uber-vs-taxi-the-best-way-to-get-around-during-pan-am/ http://www.moneysense.ca/spend/uber-vs-taxi-the-best-way-to-... So the incentive isn't only the app, its also prices. There is a lot of lobbying being done here on the part of Uber and the cab companies have already staged a few demonstrations. Will be interesting to see how this plays out.
cujo 11y ago
The game changer is the uber/lyft drivers are doing in their free time and generally __want__ to do it. So they show up when scheduled, have a pleasant demeanor, and make the whole experience one that isn't uncomfortable. Cabbies are there for the cash and their attitude and style reflect that. Cab rides are typically reckless, the drivers rude, and the cars uncomfortable. Of course, these are sweeping generalizations, so take it with a grain of salt. Regardless, the game changer is the experience from app to to destination. Not just the app.
Malician 11y ago
Right now Uber offers better service in every way which matters to me, and usually has much lower prices to boot. The cab system is an entrenched monopoly with a lot of inefficiencies and people stealing value along the way. Being able to lie on the phone and say "the cab is 15 minutes away!" when it's going to be half an hour is a feature, not a bug - for the industry. It's the equivalent of asking reform from the music industry or Hollywood - not going to happen.
wpietri 11y ago
Cab companies have done that, at least in SF. I've been using Flywheel [1] for nearly 2 years. I press a button, and a cab turns up in a few minutes. When I'm done, they bill my card. And unlike stories I hear about Uber, these drivers know the city well. [1] http://flywheel.com/ http://flywheel.com/

by derekp7 11y ago

Meekro 11y ago

They have: https://gocurb.com https://gocurb.com They've been doing it for a while -- this app used to be Taxi Magic. It's slower to respond than Uber, and more expensive.

stephengillie 11y ago
I've seen more than a few cabs in Seattle with "Use the APP" on the side. Every cab company has a different app. Uber did start the shift to using apps instead of hailing or calling cabs. Now, the idea is in the "fragmentation stage" with the early adopters, where everyone and their brother has developed a different app. Once some of the underperfomers fade away, there will hopefully be more centralization when late adopter customers start using this market.
sguha 11y ago
Taxi prices are set by the city https://www.sfmta.com/getting-around/taxi/taxi-rates https://www.sfmta.com/getting-around/taxi/taxi-rates while Uber/Lyft can set their own prices. Maybe taxis should be able to lower their prices and surge up with demand to even the playing field.
smsm42 11y ago
For what it worth, I used that a number of times when I was in Portland, and it worked just fine for me. Can't compare the prices, having no basis to compare with, but I don't remember the prices being outrageous. In general, if Uber drags the taxi industry kicking and screaming into 21st century, it's a win-win.

panorama 11y ago

In my opinion, the major benefit of Uber/Lyft is also the accountability. Having an easily-accessible paper trail of who my drivers were ensures I won't fret about losing things. If I have a poor experience, my rating actually matters and poor drivers are kicked off of the platform. If my Uber driver longhauls me (< 1% chance IME), I can get a refund by complaining to Uber support. Longhauling is more common among cab drivers AND there's no convenient way to get your money back. No accountability or recourse in traditional cabs.

santaclaus 11y ago

This probably varies a lot between cities, but the main appeal of Uber in Portland is reliability. I would love to keep it local and all, but the local cab companies (cough Radio Cab cough) would often show up hours late, if at all, even when reservations were booked a day in advance. Without a car and with public transit closed in the wee hours of the morning, cabs were my only incredibly unreliable option for getting to the airport. With Uber and Lyft I have never had issues getting to the airpot at odd hours.

FlannelPancake 11y ago
It was a similar story in Seattle. Frequently you'd call both yellow cab and orange cab (the two major cab companies) because you only expected one of them to show up within a reasonable time frame (which of course only exacerbated the problem).

austenallred 11y ago

I think when you say "the app" you really mean "the convenience of not having to hail a cab" specifically. The app is a game changer, but not for that reason. Not having to hail is nice, but that's only the tip of the iceberg. For example, a couple of days ago I took an Uber. The driver that picked me up was a student. I asked him why he was driving, and he said, "Oh, well I came [to this city] to hang out with my friends, but they can't do anything for another hour. So I decided to do a few rides while I wait." Uber was able to take the unused potential of someone just messing around in a city and use them to pick me up. They are able to do that because they can watch everything that happens via the app. If someone tries to screw you over and take a long route if you're new to the city, Uber gives you a refund and the driver doesn't get paid. If the driver is driving like a maniac on bald tires while they talk on their phone, you can give them a low rating. Enough of those and they get kicked off of the service entirely. In other words, instead of an expensive and burdensome network of licensing and regulations, Uber was able to better regulate what was happening using technology. The first time I ever took an Uber a driver came and picked me up, opened the door for me, gave me a water bottle and some candy, turned on the music I like, and was very safe and professional. And the whole thing cost less than a taxi. I haven't been in a taxi since. So the app is the main attraction, but not because you can hail a car (though that's nice, especially when you're in underserved areas). It's because the app allows Uber to create a completely different economy around the supply and demand of ridesharing.

unKlever 11y ago
I think the parent was talking about supply side. I think you are totally correct but, I find myself not satisfied with the answer. All legitimate cab companies should puf money into hiring a company to build a sinple app to connect them to legal taxis. You pay, you get on the app. Tagline, "as convenient as uber, only legal". It would be a hell of a lot cheaper than funding lawyers and lobbyists like they have been.
- ericflo 11y ago
  http://flywheel.com/ http://flywheel.com/ it's been around for quite a while and I remember seeing a ton of ads for them

x0x0 11y ago

in sf, specifically, the taxi companies are utter shit (and evil, to boot). I badly broke my leg and, because I lived too far from public transportation to crutch over, had to take taxis to work 4-5 times a week, often both ways. No taxi company in sf will reliably come, even if you make it clear that you are going to take a cab at least 4 days a week for most of the next year. Instead, even when you are in the middle of the mission in a relatively dense location and going to soma, dispatch simply lies and says "10 to 15 minutes". A 95% wait time was 3 hours, and a 85% time was 1 hour 15 minutes, for what should be an approximately 15 minute drive. Even simple requests like calling a couple minutes before the taxi arrives so I could get down 2 flights of stairs on crutches without detaining the driver or having the driver leave couldn't be followed. Needless to say, this causes significant disruption to your life when you have to leave 90 minutes plus the length of the drive before going somewhere if you want to have any hope of reliably getting there on time. And god forbid you have to see your surgeon or something else with a hard deadline. The taxi services should be ashamed of themselves, and frankly participated in a violation of my civil rights as done by a quasi-governmental monopoly. And there are other issues: when I would occasionally have to pay with a card, the meter would suddenly be broken until you made it clear drivers had two choices: call the card in or not get paid. A fucking miracle would occur, and the card reader would start working. The taxi system literally shat on their customers. The advantage of uber is simple: when requested, they either come, or say they won't. That allows you to be an adult and either make alternative arrangements or tell the other party you'll be late. I used uber even when they cost 2x as much as a cab just for this reason. In conclusion, fuck taxis. Also, fuck sf. Only in sf is "a taxi that comes" a disruptive service.

norikki 11y ago
I love the 'But Uber is illegal!' argument. A government protected industry is forced to face real competition after years of ignoring their customers needs. Boo Hoo.
- anarazel 11y ago
  Maybe I've a rather european perspective on this: But most of the arguments around Uber's services not being entirely legal here are around the kind of driver's license and such. At least in Germany, and I'm fairly certain it's the same in a couple neigbhouring countries, there's two things to driving a cab in a city: 1) Special kind of driver's permit that allows you to transport passengers in a commercial setting. That includes a background check, medical, and some lower limits how many traffic infractions you can have than a normal driver's license 2) A permit to drive a cab in a specific city/area. To me requiring a special kind of driver's license to transport passengers makes a fair amount of sense iff it's reasonably easy to get. Uber doesn't require that for UberX, which is the main point of conflict in many of the trials Uber lost over here.

smelendez 11y ago

Some cab companies do have their own apps, or sign up with national "e-hail" app vendors. In my experience in a number of US cities, these apps get terrible reviews in the App Store/Google Play because they're borderline unusable. They often don't have all the features of Uber and Lyft, like letting you track the cab while it's on its way to you or even handling payment through the app, and they're often poorly designed and even prone to crashing. My guess is that cab companies want an app that will feed into their existing dispatch workflow, with the limitations that entails. They probably also have no experience picking IT vendors, negotiating with them or evaluating apps. Also, lots of local cab company owners and medallion holders are probably skeptical that they can compete or profitably do business with a worldwide, hypercompetitive billion-dollar taxi company. It's not easy running a local discount store when Walmart opens across town, but it's not necessarily any easier for a small supplier trying to sell through Walmart.

smsm42 11y ago
> In my experience in a number of US cities, these apps get terrible reviews in the App Store/Google Play because they're borderline unusable. Looks like an opening for some very profitable startup :)

vas1 11y ago

Here in Toronto, Uber is much cheaper then a cab and only reaches cab prices when surge pricing kicks in: http://www.moneysense.ca/spend/uber-vs-taxi-the-best-way-to-get-around-during-pan-am/ http://www.moneysense.ca/spend/uber-vs-taxi-the-best-way-to-... So the incentive isn't only the app, its also prices. There is a lot of lobbying being done here on the part of Uber and the cab companies have already staged a few demonstrations. Will be interesting to see how this plays out.

cujo 11y ago

The game changer is the uber/lyft drivers are doing in their free time and generally __want__ to do it. So they show up when scheduled, have a pleasant demeanor, and make the whole experience one that isn't uncomfortable. Cabbies are there for the cash and their attitude and style reflect that. Cab rides are typically reckless, the drivers rude, and the cars uncomfortable. Of course, these are sweeping generalizations, so take it with a grain of salt. Regardless, the game changer is the experience from app to to destination. Not just the app.

Malician 11y ago

Right now Uber offers better service in every way which matters to me, and usually has much lower prices to boot. The cab system is an entrenched monopoly with a lot of inefficiencies and people stealing value along the way. Being able to lie on the phone and say "the cab is 15 minutes away!" when it's going to be half an hour is a feature, not a bug - for the industry. It's the equivalent of asking reform from the music industry or Hollywood - not going to happen.

wpietri 11y ago

Cab companies have done that, at least in SF. I've been using Flywheel [1] for nearly 2 years. I press a button, and a cab turns up in a few minutes. When I'm done, they bill my card. And unlike stories I hear about Uber, these drivers know the city well. [1] http://flywheel.com/ http://flywheel.com/