3 ms·

I have a vision, inspired by this problem, where every major highway is a "forested overpass". Instead of bisecting the top layer with roads and fences, build

by tcdent 11y ago

I have a vision, inspired by this problem, where every major highway is a "forested overpass". Instead of bisecting the top layer with roads and fences, build all major roads in tunnels, and bring the recovered surface area back to it's original state for all to enjoy. Availability of suitable habitat for native species is only getting worse. If we blindly follow the path we are on, confrontation and compromise are inevitable, and humans don't typically lose this battle. It's no surprise city centers and golf courses occupy the most desirable land (valleys along waterways). Southern California especially has a habit of teraforming natural waterways and fencing them to prevent access; it's amazing any water is still available to wild animals.

melling 11y ago
Someone proposes a cost effective solution then someone else feels the need to take the solution to a limit. "Just put everything underground" How about we try the cheaper solution first then talk about burying highways at a later date?
- brownbat 11y ago
  Even if we were ignoring cost and reality completely, I'd prefer we just buy everyone an autonomous helicopter before we bury all roads.
benihana 11y ago
>build all major roads in tunnels, and bring the recovered surface area back to it's original state for all to enjoy. How deeply have you thought this idea through? What happens in places like Florida where the water table is so high you can't dig deeper than a few feet? How do you manage entrances and exits, how do you make sure there's breathable air down there in case people have to get out of their cars? How do you vent poisonous gases? How do you keep the precious animals you're trying to save from getting in there and getting trapped or run over? What about emergency access? You can't open a gate on a service road and suddenly be underground. Those are just a couple of simple practical considerations that don't even factor in cost, which would be prohibitive.
- tcdent 11y ago
  These are all problems that have been solved. There are many existing solutions for elevating people... Are you suggesting that it is impossible to build a subway where groundwater exists? [1] All sizable tunnels have ventilation. While we still run combustion engines, we could capture unburnt fuel vapor and use it. With electric vehicles the capacities needed are much lower. > How do you keep the precious animals you're trying to save from getting in there and getting trapped or run over? Animals will not have a reason to enter if there is not something to be gained. Currently, they are provoked by the need for water and food, which justify the dangerous risks they must take. Living every day as a gatherer with no guaranteed access to water is not something I'm not convinced you have the empathy to understand. [1] http://scienceline.org/2010/02/what-would-you-do-with-eight-million-gallons-of-water-every-day/ http://scienceline.org/2010/02/what-would-you-do-with-eight-...
  - dalke 11y ago
    "Are you suggesting that it is impossible to ..." No, merely expensive. The Gotthard Base Tunnel is US$10.3 billion for "a route length of 57 km (35.4 mi) and a total of 151.84 km (94.3 mi) of tunnels, shafts and passages". (Quoting Wikipedia.) That's $290 million/mile. The Fehmarn Belt Fixed Link is estimate to cost €4.7 billion for 17.6 km of immersed tunnel, or $480 million/mile. The boondoggle that is the Alaskan Way Viaduct replacement tunnel is in the same range. By comparison, a rural interstate road costs about $5 million/mile, or a factor of 50 cheaper.
- dalke 11y ago
  Your points are all valid. I want to add that the equivalent for a tunnel for parts of Florida is an elevated roadway. When State Road 84 was built through the Everglades, it blocked water flow and generally had poor environmental planning. The upgrade to I-75 included 'bridges and culverts designed to let water and wildlife pass underneath' (quoting Wikipedia).
stretchwithme 11y ago
Eventually, better materials and robotic construction is going to be very cheap and roads will move under ground. Or these overpasses will be built. Or robotic vehicles will all slow down as animals approach a highway, while other smaller robots (maybe drones) herd them across with sound effects. One way or another, this problem will be solved. How all these technologies will evolve and which ones will solve it first is anybody's guess.

by tcdent 11y ago

melling 11y ago

Someone proposes a cost effective solution then someone else feels the need to take the solution to a limit. "Just put everything underground" How about we try the cheaper solution first then talk about burying highways at a later date?

brownbat 11y ago
Even if we were ignoring cost and reality completely, I'd prefer we just buy everyone an autonomous helicopter before we bury all roads.

benihana 11y ago

>build all major roads in tunnels, and bring the recovered surface area back to it's original state for all to enjoy. How deeply have you thought this idea through? What happens in places like Florida where the water table is so high you can't dig deeper than a few feet? How do you manage entrances and exits, how do you make sure there's breathable air down there in case people have to get out of their cars? How do you vent poisonous gases? How do you keep the precious animals you're trying to save from getting in there and getting trapped or run over? What about emergency access? You can't open a gate on a service road and suddenly be underground. Those are just a couple of simple practical considerations that don't even factor in cost, which would be prohibitive.

tcdent 11y ago
These are all problems that have been solved. There are many existing solutions for elevating people... Are you suggesting that it is impossible to build a subway where groundwater exists? [1] All sizable tunnels have ventilation. While we still run combustion engines, we could capture unburnt fuel vapor and use it. With electric vehicles the capacities needed are much lower. > How do you keep the precious animals you're trying to save from getting in there and getting trapped or run over? Animals will not have a reason to enter if there is not something to be gained. Currently, they are provoked by the need for water and food, which justify the dangerous risks they must take. Living every day as a gatherer with no guaranteed access to water is not something I'm not convinced you have the empathy to understand. [1] http://scienceline.org/2010/02/what-would-you-do-with-eight-million-gallons-of-water-every-day/ http://scienceline.org/2010/02/what-would-you-do-with-eight-...
- dalke 11y ago
  "Are you suggesting that it is impossible to ..." No, merely expensive. The Gotthard Base Tunnel is US$10.3 billion for "a route length of 57 km (35.4 mi) and a total of 151.84 km (94.3 mi) of tunnels, shafts and passages". (Quoting Wikipedia.) That's $290 million/mile. The Fehmarn Belt Fixed Link is estimate to cost €4.7 billion for 17.6 km of immersed tunnel, or $480 million/mile. The boondoggle that is the Alaskan Way Viaduct replacement tunnel is in the same range. By comparison, a rural interstate road costs about $5 million/mile, or a factor of 50 cheaper.
dalke 11y ago
Your points are all valid. I want to add that the equivalent for a tunnel for parts of Florida is an elevated roadway. When State Road 84 was built through the Everglades, it blocked water flow and generally had poor environmental planning. The upgrade to I-75 included 'bridges and culverts designed to let water and wildlife pass underneath' (quoting Wikipedia).

stretchwithme 11y ago

Eventually, better materials and robotic construction is going to be very cheap and roads will move under ground. Or these overpasses will be built. Or robotic vehicles will all slow down as animals approach a highway, while other smaller robots (maybe drones) herd them across with sound effects. One way or another, this problem will be solved. How all these technologies will evolve and which ones will solve it first is anybody's guess.