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5. One mutated gene is the reason humans have language, and chimpanzees, our closest relative, do not. Overstated? Seems unlikely to be just one gene. http://ww

by 10ren 17y ago

5. One mutated gene is the reason humans have language, and chimpanzees, our closest relative, do not. Overstated? Seems unlikely to be just one gene. http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/282009 http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/282009 12. Scientists have discovered how to scan brain activity and convert what people are seeing or remembering into crude video images. Really? Including what people are remembering? http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/science/living/article6898177.ece http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/science/living/article...

kadavy 17y ago
RE 5: "Only one gene is involved in the important barrier." but "the gene, FOXP2, is not the only one involved in our ability to communicate linguistically but the specific gene in chimpanzees and humans act and appear much differently." I guess it's just one that is the difference.
- jacquesm 17y ago
  That's testable. Splice the human gene in to the chimpanzee genome and see if the outcome is the talking chimpanzee. If not then there are more genes active.
  - rjurney 17y ago
    Oh man, we should DO that!
  - 10ren 17y ago
    It's a fascinating idea, especially what would their language (syntax) be like if they didn't have the concepts (semantics). Or would it turn out that they do have enough in the way of concepts, and have only lacked the language to express it? Or does syntax play a greater role in intelligence than we'd thought - not fully whorf-sapir, but perhaps there is some contribution, in the way that going from regular to context-free languages makes a difference? (personally, I think most of the power of our language comes from a huge vocabulary and combining it in regular ways; the CFG aspect doesn't seem so to be so profound in practice to me)
    - jacquesm 17y ago
      There's this weird thing though, we don't seem to have much in terms of 'intermediately intelligent' creatures. It seems to be an all-or-nothing thing, you can't be for instance smart enough to develop a 50,000 word vocabulary and write a thesis if you can not also speak, or at least have a speech center (no insult intended to deaf people).
      - 10ren 17y ago
        It's hard to generalize from a single instance, but you may have something there. It is striking that both means of expressing large numbers of ideas - vocabulary and syntax - only occur in us. I would guess that they were driven by the same evolutionary pressures and benefits. There was an article about a (potentially) intermediate "proto-syntax" language used by an animal. Even since your comment, I've been wracking my brains for what it was. I can't even recall what type of animal it was... ah, now that you prompt me to put it into words :), I can google "proto-syntax": http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/12/091212144710.htm http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/12/091212144710.ht... And just submitted (I seem to have come to it from reddit; it hadn't been submitted here yet): http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1036802 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1036802
  - kadavy 17y ago
    Whoa. That's scary.
scotty79 17y ago
You can read interesting things about FOXP2 gene here http://seedmagazine.com/content/article/the_evolution_of_language/ http://seedmagazine.com/content/article/the_evolution_of_lan...

by 10ren 17y ago

kadavy 17y ago

RE 5: "Only one gene is involved in the important barrier." but "the gene, FOXP2, is not the only one involved in our ability to communicate linguistically but the specific gene in chimpanzees and humans act and appear much differently." I guess it's just one that is the difference.

jacquesm 17y ago
That's testable. Splice the human gene in to the chimpanzee genome and see if the outcome is the talking chimpanzee. If not then there are more genes active.
- rjurney 17y ago
  Oh man, we should DO that!
- 10ren 17y ago
  It's a fascinating idea, especially what would their language (syntax) be like if they didn't have the concepts (semantics). Or would it turn out that they do have enough in the way of concepts, and have only lacked the language to express it? Or does syntax play a greater role in intelligence than we'd thought - not fully whorf-sapir, but perhaps there is some contribution, in the way that going from regular to context-free languages makes a difference? (personally, I think most of the power of our language comes from a huge vocabulary and combining it in regular ways; the CFG aspect doesn't seem so to be so profound in practice to me)
  - jacquesm 17y ago
    There's this weird thing though, we don't seem to have much in terms of 'intermediately intelligent' creatures. It seems to be an all-or-nothing thing, you can't be for instance smart enough to develop a 50,000 word vocabulary and write a thesis if you can not also speak, or at least have a speech center (no insult intended to deaf people).
    - 10ren 17y ago
      It's hard to generalize from a single instance, but you may have something there. It is striking that both means of expressing large numbers of ideas - vocabulary and syntax - only occur in us. I would guess that they were driven by the same evolutionary pressures and benefits. There was an article about a (potentially) intermediate "proto-syntax" language used by an animal. Even since your comment, I've been wracking my brains for what it was. I can't even recall what type of animal it was... ah, now that you prompt me to put it into words :), I can google "proto-syntax": http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/12/091212144710.htm http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/12/091212144710.ht... And just submitted (I seem to have come to it from reddit; it hadn't been submitted here yet): http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1036802 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1036802
- kadavy 17y ago
  Whoa. That's scary.

scotty79 17y ago

You can read interesting things about FOXP2 gene here http://seedmagazine.com/content/article/the_evolution_of_language/ http://seedmagazine.com/content/article/the_evolution_of_lan...