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It'd be interesting to hear a more detailed description of what you'd classify as "different for the sake of being different." There's certainly plenty of code

by yarvin9 11y ago

It'd be interesting to hear a more detailed description of what you'd classify as "different for the sake of being different." There's certainly plenty of code in this world that's the same for the sake of being the same. It's not terribly interesting to use CGA graphics for the sake of being different. On the other hand, I do wonder whether my children will grow up learning 1970s programming for the sake of being the same.

deegles 11y ago
One example is that they flipped the meaning of 0 and 1 in their new language. >We should note that in Nock and Hoon, 0 (pronounced “yes”) is true, and 1 (“no”) is false. Why? It’s fresh, it’s different, it’s new. And it’s annoying. And it keeps you on your toes. And it’s also just intuitively right.
- pcmonk 11y ago
  This is exactly the way it's used in shell scripting, and honestly, it's more useful that way for us because it makes booleans default to true instead of false. If we're going to redo everything, we may as well do it right this time.
  - minitech 11y ago
    > This is exactly the way it's used in shell scripting You say that like it’s a good thing.
- yarvin9 11y ago
  I'll give you that one! It's an old mistake and not very costly in practice, but the intuitive rightness isn't worth the pain in the butt. But the pain in the butt also isn't painful enough to match the difficulty of fixing it. I actually got this bad idea from Unix: !strcmp(), etc. It's certainly easier to overload error codes into a 0=true scheme, although Urbit doesn't actually do that.
  - david-given 11y ago
    "It's an old mistake and not very costly in practice, but the intuitive rightness isn't worth the pain in the butt." Why is it intuitively right?
    - melloclello 11y ago
      "a string can be slack in many ways, but taut in only one" 0 is true, everything else is false. At least that's my intuition.
      - emmelaich 11y ago
        Huh! Pretty similar to my comparison to Tolstoy's quote on happy and unhappy families. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10282933 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10282933
MichaelAza 11y ago
Well, as I see it, the design of Hoon is definetly different for the sake of being different, syntax wise and considering the pronounciation guide. Using new terminology where existing terminology will suffice (off the to of my head, twig and span) is different for the sake of being different.

by yarvin9 11y ago

deegles 11y ago

One example is that they flipped the meaning of 0 and 1 in their new language. >We should note that in Nock and Hoon, 0 (pronounced “yes”) is true, and 1 (“no”) is false. Why? It’s fresh, it’s different, it’s new. And it’s annoying. And it keeps you on your toes. And it’s also just intuitively right.

pcmonk 11y ago
This is exactly the way it's used in shell scripting, and honestly, it's more useful that way for us because it makes booleans default to true instead of false. If we're going to redo everything, we may as well do it right this time.
- minitech 11y ago
  > This is exactly the way it's used in shell scripting You say that like it’s a good thing.
yarvin9 11y ago
I'll give you that one! It's an old mistake and not very costly in practice, but the intuitive rightness isn't worth the pain in the butt. But the pain in the butt also isn't painful enough to match the difficulty of fixing it. I actually got this bad idea from Unix: !strcmp(), etc. It's certainly easier to overload error codes into a 0=true scheme, although Urbit doesn't actually do that.
- david-given 11y ago
  "It's an old mistake and not very costly in practice, but the intuitive rightness isn't worth the pain in the butt." Why is it intuitively right?
  - melloclello 11y ago
    "a string can be slack in many ways, but taut in only one" 0 is true, everything else is false. At least that's my intuition.
    - emmelaich 11y ago
      Huh! Pretty similar to my comparison to Tolstoy's quote on happy and unhappy families. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10282933 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10282933

MichaelAza 11y ago

Well, as I see it, the design of Hoon is definetly different for the sake of being different, syntax wise and considering the pronounciation guide. Using new terminology where existing terminology will suffice (off the to of my head, twig and span) is different for the sake of being different.