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All excellent points. This is why we should invest more heavily in proven mass transit systems rather than divert limited public funds into these inefficient po

All excellent points. This is why we should invest more heavily in proven mass transit systems rather than divert limited public funds into these inefficient pods or hyperloop systems. Corollary: Is it really that bad to have to ride a bus or train with other people on-board?

rm_-rf_slash 11y ago
Busses are the least-worst alternative to walking. People are noisy, they smell, they crowd you when you're holding groceries, they make a trip with friends or God forbid a date unpleasant, they're late when you're early and early when you're late, and chances are you'll still have to walk a few blocks to get where you want to go. Obviously not every case, but I've taken a fair amount of Bay Area busses in my time and there was always at least one of the above complaints.
- ChrisLTD 11y ago
  Agreed that it's not as pleasant as having a car to yourself (I ride the NYC buses and subways everyday), but I think we could solve a lot of the people issues with proper policing rather than outright isolation.
  - rm_-rf_slash 11y ago
    Chances are if you make more "quality of life" laws you'll either have some schmuck causing trouble when enforcement is nowhere to be found, or they'll be used as excuses for cops to pad their stats by arresting first and asking questions later, with most of the punishment hitting minorities, as tends to happen in the U.S. The problem is cultural. Another poster here mentioned Japan, where busses are pleasant. After all, that is a place where "the nail that sticks up gets hammered down." If we really want public life on par with Japan or Europe, change has to start with each and every one of us. No government program or well-funded startup could ever do it alone.
  - nulltype 11y ago
    I have ridden SF public transit of all kinds. MUNI buses are the worst, and it's not because of things that could be solved with policing. The worst part is the super high variance in door-to-door times, even if you try to plan your life around bus schedules it's bad. If you have to take multiple forms of public transit to get where you are going, good luck. A 40 minute drive can easily be 2.5 hours on public transit if everything goes perfectly. Also the average speed of SF MUNI buses is 8 mph, probably among the lowest in the nation. If I'm going any distance less than a 30 minute walk, it's probably going to be a better idea to walk than take the bus.
brianobush 11y ago
If you are in Japan, then no, trains are clean and people are mostly sane. In the US here, esp Portland, they are filled with interesting individuals, smells and acts. I have rode the Max train for years, but now drive since it is more pleasant and shortens my overall trip considerably.
- dragontamer 11y ago
  > If you are in Japan, then no, trains are clean and people are mostly sane. Don't they have at least the occasional Chikan issue? "Interesting people" exist around the world, good and bad.
  - fweespeech 11y ago
    That exists in the US as well.
  - brianobush 11y ago
    Well I don't have to worry about any chikan, as I am a man. However, there are special cars for women if they choose to avoid any potential pervs.
fps 11y ago
The problem with mass transit mostly isn't other people, it's the fact that it rarely goes from exactly where you start to exactly where you want to go. I take mass transit to and from work every day, but in order to get from my house to the commuter rail station, I have to drive a mile to a bus stop where there's parking (the commuter rail lot is small and fills up quickly) and take a bus 2 miles to the train station. Then on the other side of the train ride, I'm still 3 miles from my office, so I hop on a bike share bike and take that to the station nearest my work. Then I walk 2 blocks to my office. And then all of that back again in the afternoon. Lots of people tell me that they drive because they couldn't deal with my crazy routine. A PRT system would possibly have a station much closer to my house, so there wouldn't need to be a single commuter rail station for a town of 20K people, and therefore no dealing with crowded parking lots. It would likely have a stop at or near my office, as it's a very busy business district (Kendall Sq, Cambridge.)
- ChrisLTD 11y ago
  Why would a PRT station be any more likely to be built near your home?
  - noobermin 11y ago
    See browep's reply above[0]. The idea is that stops do not need to be large, but stops stations every few blocks. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10279524 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10279524

rm_-rf_slash 11y ago

Busses are the least-worst alternative to walking. People are noisy, they smell, they crowd you when you're holding groceries, they make a trip with friends or God forbid a date unpleasant, they're late when you're early and early when you're late, and chances are you'll still have to walk a few blocks to get where you want to go. Obviously not every case, but I've taken a fair amount of Bay Area busses in my time and there was always at least one of the above complaints.

ChrisLTD 11y ago
Agreed that it's not as pleasant as having a car to yourself (I ride the NYC buses and subways everyday), but I think we could solve a lot of the people issues with proper policing rather than outright isolation.
- rm_-rf_slash 11y ago
  Chances are if you make more "quality of life" laws you'll either have some schmuck causing trouble when enforcement is nowhere to be found, or they'll be used as excuses for cops to pad their stats by arresting first and asking questions later, with most of the punishment hitting minorities, as tends to happen in the U.S. The problem is cultural. Another poster here mentioned Japan, where busses are pleasant. After all, that is a place where "the nail that sticks up gets hammered down." If we really want public life on par with Japan or Europe, change has to start with each and every one of us. No government program or well-funded startup could ever do it alone.
- nulltype 11y ago
  I have ridden SF public transit of all kinds. MUNI buses are the worst, and it's not because of things that could be solved with policing. The worst part is the super high variance in door-to-door times, even if you try to plan your life around bus schedules it's bad. If you have to take multiple forms of public transit to get where you are going, good luck. A 40 minute drive can easily be 2.5 hours on public transit if everything goes perfectly. Also the average speed of SF MUNI buses is 8 mph, probably among the lowest in the nation. If I'm going any distance less than a 30 minute walk, it's probably going to be a better idea to walk than take the bus.

brianobush 11y ago

If you are in Japan, then no, trains are clean and people are mostly sane. In the US here, esp Portland, they are filled with interesting individuals, smells and acts. I have rode the Max train for years, but now drive since it is more pleasant and shortens my overall trip considerably.

dragontamer 11y ago
> If you are in Japan, then no, trains are clean and people are mostly sane. Don't they have at least the occasional Chikan issue? "Interesting people" exist around the world, good and bad.
- fweespeech 11y ago
  That exists in the US as well.
- brianobush 11y ago
  Well I don't have to worry about any chikan, as I am a man. However, there are special cars for women if they choose to avoid any potential pervs.

fps 11y ago

The problem with mass transit mostly isn't other people, it's the fact that it rarely goes from exactly where you start to exactly where you want to go. I take mass transit to and from work every day, but in order to get from my house to the commuter rail station, I have to drive a mile to a bus stop where there's parking (the commuter rail lot is small and fills up quickly) and take a bus 2 miles to the train station. Then on the other side of the train ride, I'm still 3 miles from my office, so I hop on a bike share bike and take that to the station nearest my work. Then I walk 2 blocks to my office. And then all of that back again in the afternoon. Lots of people tell me that they drive because they couldn't deal with my crazy routine. A PRT system would possibly have a station much closer to my house, so there wouldn't need to be a single commuter rail station for a town of 20K people, and therefore no dealing with crowded parking lots. It would likely have a stop at or near my office, as it's a very busy business district (Kendall Sq, Cambridge.)

ChrisLTD 11y ago
Why would a PRT station be any more likely to be built near your home?
- noobermin 11y ago
  See browep's reply above[0]. The idea is that stops do not need to be large, but stops stations every few blocks. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10279524 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10279524