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"A lie can travel halfway around the world before the truth can get its boots on" JDT is not dying. I am the Executive Director of the Eclipse Foundation, and

"A lie can travel halfway around the world before the truth can get its boots on" JDT is not dying. I am the Executive Director of the Eclipse Foundation, and I am here to tell you that the commit numbers quoted in the blog post are completely bogus. The stats shown on the Eclipse project pages only show the activity in the master branch. At the moment, the vast majority of the JDT activity is happening in a separate Java 9 branch. If you actually look at the git repositories directly (see link below for one repo), you can find a couple hundred commits in September, not zero. The other thing going on is that the team has been in rampdown mode for the Mars.1 release shipping in the first week of October. A code freeze leading to a release is standard operating procedure for the Eclipse project. In summary, this article is based on incorrect and incomplete numbers, and is entirely misleading. http://git.eclipse.org/c/jdt/eclipse.jdt.core.git/stats/?period=m&ofs=10 http://git.eclipse.org/c/jdt/eclipse.jdt.core.git/stats/?per...

pdeva1 11y ago
Are you denying that : 1. The chart screenshots are not from your website? 2. the screenshot of New and Noteworthy is not correct? 3. The screenshot of mailing list is not correct? 4. the screenshot showing website not update in years is incorrect?
- alblue 11y ago
  No, he is saying that the website is generated from a different branch to the one that is being worked on at the moment.
- mmilinkov 11y ago
  "Deny"? No, not really. What I am saying is that pretty much every factoid in that blog post is either wrong or taken out of context. Again: JDT is just fine. It is not dying. Yes the chart screenshots are from our website. But I can also confirm that the chart screenshots show only the data from the the top-level JDT project. It is not including the sub-projects. We have someone working on fixing that now. Here is a summary of the commits since June: +-------------------+---------+ | project | commits | +-------------------+---------+ | eclipse.jdt | 8 | | eclipse.jdt.core | 165 | | eclipse.jdt.debug | 18 | | eclipse.jdt.ui | 34 | +-------------------+---------+ As I said all the work is happening in the Java 9 branch, and are not being included. Take a look at the link I included in my original post, which shows 108 commits in jdt.core just in the last month. Re: New and Noteworthy, as I said the team is focused on Java 9....there will be lots of content there when they have something. Re: mailing list - Mailing lists are Eclipse are not like many other open source projects. They only use them for internal project conversations. (Yes, I know that's sort of weird.) If you want to find where the action is at Eclipse, you don't look at the mailing lists. Look in Bugzilla. I'll try to find the right query and link it here to show what I mean. Re: Website: Yes, that is totally bogus. Yes, the project doesn't pay a lot of attention to that. That's at least partially because we focus on [1] as the landing page for users. [1] https://www.eclipse.org/ide/ https://www.eclipse.org/ide/
  - vancan1ty 11y ago
    "Take a look at the link I included in my original post, which shows 108 commits in jdt.core just in the last month." You need to take another look at the timeframe for that statement. The link (http://git.eclipse.org/c/jdt/eclipse.jdt.core.git/stats/?period=m&ofs=10 http://git.eclipse.org/c/jdt/eclipse.jdt.core.git/stats/?per...) in your original post shows 15 commits so far in September, not 108 as you claim. The 108 figure is total commits since the beginning of June.
    - waynebeaton 11y ago
      I gave Mike that data without providing enough context. Yes, 108 is the number of commits since the beginning of June. That number includes all commits on all branches. You're right that the number of commits in September is down, but the trend line in the months preceding September is pretty stable and represents a healthy project that is on track to deliver Java 9 support in September 2016 (and that's what is really important, right?) The project lead has taken some time out of his busy schedule to capture down an explanation for the anomaly in the commit chart. https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/jdt-ui-dev/msg01425.html https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/jdt-ui-dev/msg01425.ht... That the project didn't include any talk of Java 9 in their new and noteworthy is, I believe, primarily the project lead trying to be careful about what claims we make about Java 9 support. FWIW, you can test the Java 9 support BETA today. http://marketplace.eclipse.org/content/eclipse-java%E2%84%A2-9-support-beta-mars http://marketplace.eclipse.org/content/eclipse-java%E2%84%A2... I've changed how we generate those charts to make it easier for people to see activity without having to understand (and navigate) our (arcane?) project hierarchy.
  - Flenser 11y ago
    +-------------------+---------+ | project | commits | +-------------------+---------+ | eclipse.jdt | 8 | | eclipse.jdt.core | 165 | | eclipse.jdt.debug | 18 | | eclipse.jdt.ui | 34 | +-------------------+---------+
mmilinkov 11y ago
Sorry, I got the root cause wrong. The problem is not that the numbers didn't include the branches, it is because it doesn't include the sub-projects (where the real work is happening). The JDT root project is basically only going to show commits to build scripts and the like. For those who are interested, you can read the Eclipse 4.6 release plan, and see the stuff planned for next June's release. But at the risk of repeating myself: a lot of the energy is going into the Java 9 work. https://www.eclipse.org/projects/project-plan.php?planurl=http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/development/plans/eclipse_project_plan_4_6.xml https://www.eclipse.org/projects/project-plan.php?planurl=ht...
zoyo 11y ago
Hey, just wanted to say Thank you! Keep up the great work. I've been using Eclipse for about 8 years. My only major gripe: Why aren't the Eclipse binaries signed with GPG keys? The binaries are served off mirrors. We just saw XCodeGhost happen. This really needs to be fixed. Minor gripes: ARM builds would be nice. Hi DPI would be nice.
- mmilinkov 11y ago
  Zoyo, Thanks for the kind words. Regarding the GPG signing, currently we sign every executable and jar inside the zip file, and rely on SHA checksums to allow users to verify the content. If you think that's insufficient, could I ask that you open a bug explaining your reasoning? There are ARM builds available at fedora.org. But I agree that getting those available somewhere on eclipse.org would be sweet. I think high DPI is on the list of things to do. Contributions are always gratefully accepted :) Thanks for using Eclipse!
dang 11y ago
> "A lie can travel halfway around the world before the truth can get its boots on" Indeed it can and does, but welcome to HN where people care about setting the record straight. Thanks for coming and giving us the facts, and welcome to the community too!
- mmilinkov 11y ago
  Thanks for the warm welcome. It's much appreciated.
justthistime_ 11y ago
Are there any stats regarding the work that goes into the "IDE/editing" components vs. the amount of work on Eclipse as a modular, pluggable AbstractFactoryFactory platform for random companies to add their proprietary stuff on top? As a long term user it feels like no one from the Eclipse project actually uses Eclipse to write code anymore.

pdeva1 11y ago

Are you denying that : 1. The chart screenshots are not from your website? 2. the screenshot of New and Noteworthy is not correct? 3. The screenshot of mailing list is not correct? 4. the screenshot showing website not update in years is incorrect?

alblue 11y ago
No, he is saying that the website is generated from a different branch to the one that is being worked on at the moment.
mmilinkov 11y ago
"Deny"? No, not really. What I am saying is that pretty much every factoid in that blog post is either wrong or taken out of context. Again: JDT is just fine. It is not dying. Yes the chart screenshots are from our website. But I can also confirm that the chart screenshots show only the data from the the top-level JDT project. It is not including the sub-projects. We have someone working on fixing that now. Here is a summary of the commits since June: +-------------------+---------+ | project | commits | +-------------------+---------+ | eclipse.jdt | 8 | | eclipse.jdt.core | 165 | | eclipse.jdt.debug | 18 | | eclipse.jdt.ui | 34 | +-------------------+---------+ As I said all the work is happening in the Java 9 branch, and are not being included. Take a look at the link I included in my original post, which shows 108 commits in jdt.core just in the last month. Re: New and Noteworthy, as I said the team is focused on Java 9....there will be lots of content there when they have something. Re: mailing list - Mailing lists are Eclipse are not like many other open source projects. They only use them for internal project conversations. (Yes, I know that's sort of weird.) If you want to find where the action is at Eclipse, you don't look at the mailing lists. Look in Bugzilla. I'll try to find the right query and link it here to show what I mean. Re: Website: Yes, that is totally bogus. Yes, the project doesn't pay a lot of attention to that. That's at least partially because we focus on [1] as the landing page for users. [1] https://www.eclipse.org/ide/ https://www.eclipse.org/ide/
- vancan1ty 11y ago
  "Take a look at the link I included in my original post, which shows 108 commits in jdt.core just in the last month." You need to take another look at the timeframe for that statement. The link (http://git.eclipse.org/c/jdt/eclipse.jdt.core.git/stats/?period=m&ofs=10 http://git.eclipse.org/c/jdt/eclipse.jdt.core.git/stats/?per...) in your original post shows 15 commits so far in September, not 108 as you claim. The 108 figure is total commits since the beginning of June.
  - waynebeaton 11y ago
    I gave Mike that data without providing enough context. Yes, 108 is the number of commits since the beginning of June. That number includes all commits on all branches. You're right that the number of commits in September is down, but the trend line in the months preceding September is pretty stable and represents a healthy project that is on track to deliver Java 9 support in September 2016 (and that's what is really important, right?) The project lead has taken some time out of his busy schedule to capture down an explanation for the anomaly in the commit chart. https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/jdt-ui-dev/msg01425.html https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/jdt-ui-dev/msg01425.ht... That the project didn't include any talk of Java 9 in their new and noteworthy is, I believe, primarily the project lead trying to be careful about what claims we make about Java 9 support. FWIW, you can test the Java 9 support BETA today. http://marketplace.eclipse.org/content/eclipse-java%E2%84%A2-9-support-beta-mars http://marketplace.eclipse.org/content/eclipse-java%E2%84%A2... I've changed how we generate those charts to make it easier for people to see activity without having to understand (and navigate) our (arcane?) project hierarchy.
- Flenser 11y ago
  +-------------------+---------+ | project | commits | +-------------------+---------+ | eclipse.jdt | 8 | | eclipse.jdt.core | 165 | | eclipse.jdt.debug | 18 | | eclipse.jdt.ui | 34 | +-------------------+---------+

mmilinkov 11y ago

Sorry, I got the root cause wrong. The problem is not that the numbers didn't include the branches, it is because it doesn't include the sub-projects (where the real work is happening). The JDT root project is basically only going to show commits to build scripts and the like. For those who are interested, you can read the Eclipse 4.6 release plan, and see the stuff planned for next June's release. But at the risk of repeating myself: a lot of the energy is going into the Java 9 work. https://www.eclipse.org/projects/project-plan.php?planurl=http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/development/plans/eclipse_project_plan_4_6.xml https://www.eclipse.org/projects/project-plan.php?planurl=ht...

zoyo 11y ago

Hey, just wanted to say Thank you! Keep up the great work. I've been using Eclipse for about 8 years. My only major gripe: Why aren't the Eclipse binaries signed with GPG keys? The binaries are served off mirrors. We just saw XCodeGhost happen. This really needs to be fixed. Minor gripes: ARM builds would be nice. Hi DPI would be nice.

mmilinkov 11y ago
Zoyo, Thanks for the kind words. Regarding the GPG signing, currently we sign every executable and jar inside the zip file, and rely on SHA checksums to allow users to verify the content. If you think that's insufficient, could I ask that you open a bug explaining your reasoning? There are ARM builds available at fedora.org. But I agree that getting those available somewhere on eclipse.org would be sweet. I think high DPI is on the list of things to do. Contributions are always gratefully accepted :) Thanks for using Eclipse!

dang 11y ago

> "A lie can travel halfway around the world before the truth can get its boots on" Indeed it can and does, but welcome to HN where people care about setting the record straight. Thanks for coming and giving us the facts, and welcome to the community too!

mmilinkov 11y ago
Thanks for the warm welcome. It's much appreciated.

justthistime_ 11y ago

Are there any stats regarding the work that goes into the "IDE/editing" components vs. the amount of work on Eclipse as a modular, pluggable AbstractFactoryFactory platform for random companies to add their proprietary stuff on top? As a long term user it feels like no one from the Eclipse project actually uses Eclipse to write code anymore.