8 ms·

Is Eclipse JDT dying?

65 points by pdeva1 11y ago

vvanders 11y ago
Required: http://theprofoundprogrammer.com/post/29839282968/text-ive-got-ninety-nine-problems-and-eclipse http://theprofoundprogrammer.com/post/29839282968/text-ive-g...
alanfranzoni 11y ago
Imho Eclipse has never been a good ide. Its confusing user experience never appealed me. But then, it was free and had certain features and was quite extensible. Then Netbeans began improving quickly, IDEA had a free edition and Jetbrains released many good IDEs for other languages as well. Game over.
- joshstrange 11y ago
  I've always despised Eclipse. It was always a PITA and was a resource hog. It turned me off of all IDE's for years until I came back and saw the light with IDEA & friends.
- tootie 11y ago
  Eclipse set the bar in terms of having an utterly vast list of features and wild west bazaar of plugins. It was like market research for the more sophisticated vendors. IntelliJ has the 30% of features users actually wanted with a much tighter implementation.
  - mamon 11y ago
    My impression is quite different: IntelliJ has comparable set of features, but the difference is that in IntelliJ those features actually work without annoying user. this started with a simple but brilliant idea JetBrains developers had: "disk space is dirt cheap, let's use 1-2 GB of it to store index, so that autocompletion could work lightining fast". Also, because it was initially developed by single company and single team of developers IDEA code (both core and plugins) is much more consistent in terms of quality than Eclipse's counterparts.
    - tmd83 11y ago
      I am a long time happy user of IDEA but they seem to be always screwing up index these days. There has been version when the responsiveness of autocomplete has plummet. It has gone faster in places and slower in others. I think in general the worst case performance (people remember the annoyances more) has often regressed between releases too much. It seems every software out there is getting more features but the produces are getting sloppy and bug prone.
    - alanfranzoni 11y ago
      I agree completely. While Eclipse had a lot of plugins, it was often difficult to make them work together; so I was stuck with multiple Eclipse or eclipse customizations with a different set of plugins for each one. IDEA has probably less features, and third party plugins don't necessarily work well together; but you can see the idea of the "ide as a whole" behind Jetbrains products.
- the_af 11y ago
  I disagree. Eclipse used to be a capable IDE, even if some UI choices were dubious (but everyone has opinions about interface design, don't they?) It was free & open source, and had superb autocompletion and refactoring, and a decent debugger. What else could you ask of a Java IDE? Unfortunately, it seems to me Eclipse has become more unusable, slow and confusing with each iteration. But it didn't start that way. I seem to remember one major version which completely changed the UI, and at the same time the team disabled most UI tests, and the justification was "most tests broke with the latest change, and we don't have enough resources to fix them". And it showed...
- fs111 11y ago
  sorry, but I find the IDEA ui a lot more confusing than eclipse. Must be long time exposure...
- mcs_ 11y ago
  Agree, what about settings and configuration... export your eclipse settings from one workstation to another can be half day of work.
laveur 11y ago
Good let it fall to the wayside while better tools come along.
thrownaway2424 11y ago
DRAM shares plummet.
bhouston 11y ago
It seems that only one guy is responsible for most of JDT: Markus Keller: https://github.com/eclipse/eclipse.jdt.ui/graphs/contributors https://github.com/eclipse/eclipse.jdt.ui/graphs/contributor... https://github.com/eclipse/eclipse.jdt/graphs/contributors https://github.com/eclipse/eclipse.jdt/graphs/contributors https://github.com/eclipse/eclipse.jdt.core/graphs/contributors https://github.com/eclipse/eclipse.jdt.core/graphs/contribut...
mataug 11y ago
I started using Eclipse as a netbeans convert, I loved it initially until ofcourse I started using IDEA from Jetbrains. This has been the case with most of my friends so I'm not really surprised by the lack of interest in Eclipse.
chaostheory 11y ago
imo Eclipse's main flaw was that plugins just didn't work or stay working. It seemed to have gotten better in later years but it still wasn't good enough for work. I'm not sure how not using Swing affected development either since Swing had some huge improvements in 1.7 Intellij pretty much took over
spiralpolitik 11y ago
Eclipse teaches developers so many bad habits that I will be quite happy for it to die in the fire.
- ljk 11y ago
  been using eclipse since in school so never thought about it, but what are the bad habits?
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - spiralpolitik 11y ago
    Two examples: - Dependencies between modules in the same source base for one, which given the most common setup (single workspace) Eclipse will quite happily ignore and treat everything as one module. - The default static analysis setup misses so many common things (unused imports, methods, variables) that whenever I open a class in IntelliJ I have to spend 5 minutes removing the cruft. In its time Eclipse was a good IDE, but its time has passed.
    - Karunamon 11y ago
      That second one confuses me, Eclipse as of the three days ago I last opened it absolutely does warn about unused imports, methods, and variables. And this is with the bog standard out of the box configuration.
    - anthonybsd 11y ago
      > Dependencies between modules in the same source base for one, which given the most common setup (single workspace) Eclipse will quite happily ignore and treat everything as one module. Wait what? I have no idea what you are talking about. If modules are depending upon each other via Maven, you simply stick dependant one to the other's classpath if you want to use the workspace version. > The default static analysis setup misses so many common things (unused imports, methods, variables) that whenever I open a class in IntelliJ I have to spend 5 minutes removing the cruft. I'm looking at the same project here side by side and once again I'm not sure what you are referring to. If anything, some of IntelliJ assumptions for code quality can actually result in more fragile code if you aren't careful.
saidajigumi 11y ago
Many years ago, Eclipse as a whole had a few promising points: * Open-source, with an apparently large community * Extensible within itself via plugins * Some interesting GUI features: * User- and plugin- definable and customizable "perspectives" that captured specific workflows, e.g. debugging, language X editing, schema editing, etc. * For its time, relative to other IDEs (Visual Studio, I'm lookin' at you) a much easier approach to managing panes and tabs to the user's liking. * The fantastic ability to quickly narrow the settings pane navigation via text search. OS X's System Preferences later added a similar feature to find & narrow pref panes based on a keyword search. I still feel that there's untapped opportunity for GUIs and traditional editor modes (emacs/vim) to leverage spinoffs from this interaction model. That said, Eclipse never seemed to surmount what I feel were its major difficulties: * The Workspace -- IMO the most absolutely toxic abstraction an IDE has ever had. All "projects" must live under a "workspace" which is both an on-disk top-level directory+data that users must cope with above their project(s) and an inescapable in-code monstrosity that plugin writers must also cope with. This was a mimicking of other IDEs that thought it was a good idea to maintain an entire separate organizational data structure for code that created a separate hierarchy that duplicated and obscured the on-disk organization, and a short-sighted hard-coding of a Java-centric mindset where any non-trivial codebase was certainly going to consist of multiple interdependent projects. The Workspace was a core architectural disaster. A symptom: it made Eclipse ridiculously painful to use to, e.g., "just edit a python file". Contrast with TextMate's lightweight approach of "a directory is a project" and fast in-project navigation/fuzzy search tools. No state was required other than what was on disk. TextMate's full power and bundles were available with zero friction for either project-centric for file-centric work. * Speed -- The more time goes on, the less excusable Eclipse's dog-slow performance is. Early on, it was easy to overlook its slugishness, because reasons. Some recent work has had me suddenly delving back into (two different!) Eclipse projects, and its amazing just how the poor the UI responsiveness compares to other modern environments, even on screamingly fast hardware. * Extensibility schizophrenia -- Despite Eclipse being extensible through plugins, those were really envisioned as third-party shippable modules. User configuration was a separate second-class sytem, entirely GUI-managed, and a major pain to clone to a new system. Compare to how Emacs & Vim work with a VCS-managed home directory, or even just a zip file or tarball. In no small part, this came from Eclipse's foundations on an early Java/JVM compiled-only mindset. With no scriptability baked into that platform, there was little choice but to have a strong divide between code (plugin) vs. data (configuration).
lchengify 11y ago
I have a love / hate relationship with Eclipse. On one hand it's everything I've always wanted development to be: Technically correct, free, pluggable and open source. On the other hand I've upgraded my computer 8 times in the past 10 years and Eclipse is constant in its ability to always be way to slow to do anything. I now use JetBrains IDE's and VIM and it's a totally different world. It's nice to not have to think about what random Eclipse plugin is colliding with what other random minor version update that is stopping me from using the debugger correctly. Sometimes if a task is complex, annoying and specific enough, it's better to just pay a company to produce a maintained tool rather than relying on the open source community to just "solve it for you". A good analogy might be Gimp vs Photoshop. Gimp is great for learning and gets you there, but if your job depends on it, it starts making economic sense to pay someone for something better. I started using Eclipse back at School and it was great at getting me into programming. It will always have a place in my heart ... just not on my hard drive :/
- hugi 11y ago
  I have the exact opposite experience. I've attempted to switch to IntelliJ on multiple occasions in the past couple of years but I've never gotten it to feel as fast and flexible as Eclipse. Is it possible you're comparing to old versions; Eclipse used to be really slow 4-5 years ago, but the current versions running on an SSD are blazing fast. If there's one thing I hate about Eclipse, it's that it's kind of ugly :).
  - lchengify 11y ago
    So it's totally possible, my Eclipse journey ended about 3 years ago and I've never looked back. Also for the past 2 years I haven't been coding much java, mainly python django / javascript. And I will say the tooling for django debugging in PyCharm is really excellent, both in setting it up and daily use. The Eclipse plugin might work but really PyCharm is the meth of debugging setups: It'd be hard to leave.
  - tokenizerrr 11y ago
    Whenever I try to switch IntelliJ I hit a few roadblocks that force me to turn back to eclipse, sadly. * No true multiproject/workspace support (with maven integration) * Slower compile times than in Eclipse, somehow * Have to hit an extra shortcut after editing a file for a hot reload to happen while debugging Am I just crazy, or are these really areas that IntelliJ is weaker in than Eclipse?
ruk_booze 11y ago
The log begs to differ http://git.eclipse.org/c/jdt/eclipse.jdt.core.git/log/ http://git.eclipse.org/c/jdt/eclipse.jdt.core.git/log/
- alanfranzoni 11y ago
  Yes... it seems very different than the activity shown on the project page... 108 commits in the latest four months is not that bad. Why such difference in data?
  - mmilinkov 11y ago
    Please see above. It's because the JDT project page doesn't roll up the stats from its sub-projects, where all the real work happens. We're looking into fixing that.
agumonkey 11y ago
Eclipse is Emacs done wrong. ps: oops, that was meant to be an answer for https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10274067 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10274067
- tonyarkles 11y ago
  I've chuckled a few times in this discussion where people have been asking "Have you tried Eclipse on an SSD?" Know what makes an IDE work even better than an SSD? Being able to fit the entire thing in RAM and not have to page out all the time. Other than the speed part, the main reason I keep using Emacs is because of the easy-to-access-remotely part of it. I've got a nice beefy Linux box at home that I can ssh into. Tmux keeps my sessions alive. Emacs lets me do all of the code editing. And the nice little Surface 3 is easy to carry around and makes a fantastic SSH terminal.
  - nkhodyunya 11y ago
    Isn't TRAMP a way to manage remote files that is way better than starting emacs directly on a remote machine?
  - agumonkey 11y ago
    Emacs isn't perfect, and Emacs was the Eclipse of its day. But it makes a lot of sense so many times. Very pragmatic, extensible simply. It's still thin spaghetti compared to the "sturdiness" of Java/Eclipse. But I've seen the internal long time ago and it was just a fatter model of spaghetti. Anything in Eclipse requires a lot of efforts, and too many times the original goal gets diluted in the implementation. I said it elsewhere, after spending 2004-2007 on Eclipse, then leaving for Emacs, I recently had to go back to Eclipse, it's not better, git integration is useless, lots of windows for no reason, a very special kind of UI, maybe suitable for people that likes windows and mouse. It's sad because it comes from the same community that creates the most job friendly systems, so if you wanna play with JEE/Maven/EMF/..., you'll end up needing something like Eclipse, because of this subtle synergy.
RyanZAG 11y ago
Kind of surprised by the comments here regarding speed. Have none of you used Eclipse recently on an SSD? I use Jetbrain's stuff a lot of the time, but the biggest problem Jetbrain's stuff has is how terribly slow it is compared to Eclipse. Are these comments just relics of experience from years ago, or is there some secret I'm using in having Eclipse be around 2x the speed of Jetbrains? Just tried opening an Android Java project in both Eclipse and Android Studio and the Eclipse is finished loading before Android Studio is even 20% Other than that, Eclipse is free software which is important in the same way Linux is important to cultivate even though we have Windows.
- lchengify 11y ago
  So it's never been the SSDs for me, it's always been paging / memory consumption. When I run Eclipse / JetBrains I set the XmX flags super high on the JVM to compensate, but it still always felt slower. Basically I've found that a lot of Eclipse plugins and core pieces associated with the debugger allocate a lot of heap space that never goes away. However I haven't used Eclipse in about 3 years (or on Java 8), or for Android, so if there's something new I'm missing, your point might be valid.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
- the_af 11y ago
  > Other than that, Eclipse is free software which is important in the same way Linux is important to cultivate even though we have Windows. I fully share your sentiment. The rest of my comment is eclipsed (no pun intended!) by this. That said, SSDs are still not that widely deployed in my country, and almost never in cheap developer laptops. Yes, yes, we can argue all day long about why employers still consider buying good developer machines a needless expense, but meanwhile accept that in many places in the world that is the case. So the question becomes... when the hell did Eclipse decide that in order to work decently you had to use an SSD? Why did its performance degrade so much; what new and revolutionary features did this performance degradation buy us? And why does IntelliJ work so much faster in the same, non-SSD hardware?
guelo 11y ago
I'm always so confused by comment threads like this page. I used Eclipse daily for 6 years then was forced to switch and now I've been using IntelliJ daily for the past 2 years. So I think I'm qualified to make a fair comparison and I still vastly prefer Eclipse. But then I look at comment threads like this page and it's all about how superior IntelliJ is. It always leaves me confused, like I'm missing something about IntelliJ but I don't know what it is.
- paperwork 11y ago
  Same here. I haven't used eclipse in the past two years because I've been doing non-java work. Before that I used it since the beginning of my career, around 2000. I don't recall having issues with slowness and plugins randomly not working. When I first started using it, I remember being a bit confused by projects vs files. That's when I didn't understand the concept of IDEs (as opposed to text editors). I feel like I'm living in an alternative universe.
  - simoncion 11y ago
    I was using Eclipse for a couple of years for C++ and Java work (some of that work was building things on Eclipse) about three years back. Once you increased a few limits like the Java max heap size [0] Eclipse was a bit slow to start, but -once started- was no slower than any other full-featured IDE I'd used. CDT was really nice, and the Java tooling worked as well as I expected it to. The two really big issues I had were the really terrible dependency resolver -which not infrequently required you to update packages in stages, playing the "Which package(s) is giving the dep resolver grief now?" game for several fives of minutes-, and Eclipse's tendency to cache all sorts of file state. Once you learned what Eclipse cached, you knew what sorts of things to not do outside of Eclipse, but until then... oh, the mysterious errors one was likely to receive! :P [0] Rant: Why the fuck is this even a tunable? Every other program I use (including software written with a language that targets a GC'd VM like C# or Erlang) is completely capable of regulating its own memory usage. Why does Java need me to tell it how much memory it is allowed to use?
- muhuk 11y ago
  I think it's because IntelliJ has a greater cool factor. Exact same thing happens with Apple. Apple customers, say macbook users, complain about the high prices, subpar hardware, iTunes and other software issues in private. But then the same people can brag about their macbook in a different context. Eclipse is just not as cool as IntelliJ. But it gets the work done. And has more capabilities, and is open source, etc. etc. Yet, Eclipse is not cool. So we see an eagerness to point at its weak points. My personal comparison: Once you have the right plugins it's super easy to create a scala project with maven in Eclipse. I had to download scala sources and tell IntelliJ their location, still it didn't work. Forget about maven. (I'm sure IntelliJ gurus can set it up, my point is it's not easy for n00bs)
lolive 11y ago
Do you realize that some people are coding Javascript (sic) in Notepad (sic)? So please, let's be serious. Eclipse (and IntelliJ, and Netbeans) are f.cking AWESOME productivity tools !!!!
landryraccoon 11y ago
Suppose you have a hard requirement that your tools are free and open source. What IDE would you recommend as a replacement for Eclipse? (JetBrains is out, it's neither free nor open source). The worry I have with Eclipse dying is that there isn't a great completely open alternative.
- douche 11y ago
  There is a community edition of IntelliJ that is open source https://github.com/JetBrains/intellij-community https://github.com/JetBrains/intellij-community
  - landryraccoon 11y ago
    Do you know if there is a python plugin for the open source edition?
    - alblue 11y ago
      No, there is not. The community edition of IntelliJ only supports basic Java development (no JavaScript or other languages).
PaulHoule 11y ago
Yes. I know a lot of iOS developers that hate development for Android and I think Eclipse is a major reason. Unlike Linuxers, Macers know that a good user interface is possible thus they can't put up with the crashing, slowness, pluginitis,...
- forgottenpass 11y ago
  >$us have $good_property, $they don't even know $good_property can exist. Thanks for the insightful analysis.
- jschwartzi 11y ago
  There's a reason Android Studio exists now.
- taormina 11y ago
  Nowadays, Android Studio has become the default IDE for Android development, and Eclipse support hasn't been a primary objective in quite a while. Also, XCode is not what I would call a good user interface....
anthonybsd 11y ago
It's really sad to see this happening. I prefer IntelliJ for most of my development work, but certain things it's completely unsuitable for. Debugging multi-threaded code in particular in IntelliJ is a very paintful experience compared to Eclipse.
mmilinkov 11y ago
"A lie can travel halfway around the world before the truth can get its boots on" JDT is not dying. I am the Executive Director of the Eclipse Foundation, and I am here to tell you that the commit numbers quoted in the blog post are completely bogus. The stats shown on the Eclipse project pages only show the activity in the master branch. At the moment, the vast majority of the JDT activity is happening in a separate Java 9 branch. If you actually look at the git repositories directly (see link below for one repo), you can find a couple hundred commits in September, not zero. The other thing going on is that the team has been in rampdown mode for the Mars.1 release shipping in the first week of October. A code freeze leading to a release is standard operating procedure for the Eclipse project. In summary, this article is based on incorrect and incomplete numbers, and is entirely misleading. http://git.eclipse.org/c/jdt/eclipse.jdt.core.git/stats/?period=m&ofs=10 http://git.eclipse.org/c/jdt/eclipse.jdt.core.git/stats/?per...
- pdeva1 11y ago
  Are you denying that : 1. The chart screenshots are not from your website? 2. the screenshot of New and Noteworthy is not correct? 3. The screenshot of mailing list is not correct? 4. the screenshot showing website not update in years is incorrect?
  - alblue 11y ago
    No, he is saying that the website is generated from a different branch to the one that is being worked on at the moment.
  - mmilinkov 11y ago
    "Deny"? No, not really. What I am saying is that pretty much every factoid in that blog post is either wrong or taken out of context. Again: JDT is just fine. It is not dying. Yes the chart screenshots are from our website. But I can also confirm that the chart screenshots show only the data from the the top-level JDT project. It is not including the sub-projects. We have someone working on fixing that now. Here is a summary of the commits since June: +-------------------+---------+ | project | commits | +-------------------+---------+ | eclipse.jdt | 8 | | eclipse.jdt.core | 165 | | eclipse.jdt.debug | 18 | | eclipse.jdt.ui | 34 | +-------------------+---------+ As I said all the work is happening in the Java 9 branch, and are not being included. Take a look at the link I included in my original post, which shows 108 commits in jdt.core just in the last month. Re: New and Noteworthy, as I said the team is focused on Java 9....there will be lots of content there when they have something. Re: mailing list - Mailing lists are Eclipse are not like many other open source projects. They only use them for internal project conversations. (Yes, I know that's sort of weird.) If you want to find where the action is at Eclipse, you don't look at the mailing lists. Look in Bugzilla. I'll try to find the right query and link it here to show what I mean. Re: Website: Yes, that is totally bogus. Yes, the project doesn't pay a lot of attention to that. That's at least partially because we focus on [1] as the landing page for users. [1] https://www.eclipse.org/ide/ https://www.eclipse.org/ide/
barrkel 11y ago
Post open sourcing, Eclipse development was supported by IBM for strategic reasons, in opposition to MS. When Oracle bought Sun, the strategic relationship changed, and IBM saw less reason to invest in Oracle tech. IMO Eclipse is a product of a particular type of engineering, one that is done on a 9-5 payroll, and never as a labour of love. I've always found it awkward to use and surprisingly difficult to configure - even simple things like syntax highlighting is spread over multiple locations in the byzantine preferences. The whole perspectives thing, and its obsession with you selecting a workspace, up front, which is distinct from the project you're working on - it forces the user to adopt its internal idioms and jargon, rather than the other way around. Eclipse killed off JBuilder's original IDE back in the day, undercutting it. I far preferred JBuilder's UI.
- mmilinkov 11y ago
  I sort of agree that Eclipse started out that way (mostly paid for by IBM), but I am happy to report that the community has evolved a great deal since those days. If you take a look at the Platform UI project, for example, you will see a very diverse project, with a lot of unaffiliated committers. https://projects.eclipse.org/projects/eclipse.platform.ui/who https://projects.eclipse.org/projects/eclipse.platform.ui/wh...
- simoncion 11y ago
  The preferences window would be useless without its search box. I found Perspectives odd at first, but I grew to like them. For the work I was doing, being able to set up a couple of modes, each with its own set of open and positioned windows was rather useful. As to workspaces, I initially found it strange that I was expected to have like all of my projects in a given workspace, but Working Sets (or whatever the thing was called that opened certain sets of projects and closed all others) made that pretty reasonable. I did end up having separate workspaces for my C++ work and my Java work, though.
EdSharkey 11y ago
Eclipse has always been a needed and valuable IDE for Java development. If I wanted to spin up a Java app with Maven, I could do okay with Eclipse. Refactoring tools work fine, debugging is great. Support for languages OTHER than Java, however, vary wildly in terms of value. One language support that seems to have crossed over into complete obsolescence is JavaScript. I hate to break it to you Eclipse Foundation, but developing JavaScript on a WebIDE is completely out of the question for many of us, so your fancy Orion system is a non-starter. It's mean of me to say, but I'm rooting for Orion to fail so you can move those developers back to enhancing the desktop IDE's JavaScript support. Eclipse JSDT is my only option, and it seems broken and unmaintained. Around the 2008 timeframe, I was really impressed with JSDT's ability to build out a type library as it parsed my prototypes, it really understood the type system when I added JSDocs. It all works ok for rink-a-dink projects that are targeting the browser and coexisting with HTML. But, for any modern development like server-side Node.JS or CommonJS browserify/webpack projects in the browser, ES6 or anything modern, Eclipse JSDT is really up a creek without a paddle. I can't use you, and that makes me so sad to say because I WAS a staunch Eclipse user who turned his nose up at JetBrains! To make matters worse, Eclipse has gotten slower and buggy since the last major upgrade (Luna?) and WebStorm is cheap and great and amazing at parsing JSDoc's to the point it practically turns JavaScript into a statically typed language, and it groks CommonJS and my node_modules folder (with the help of a little plugin I downloaded.) I admit I haven't tried running Eclipse in a year, so perhaps the bugginess has been addressed.
- Flenser 11y ago
  Have you tried nodeclipse¹? I haven't tried it yet but am considering it for when I next have to do a lot of js work. [1] http://www.nodeclipse.org/ http://www.nodeclipse.org/
  - EdSharkey 11y ago
    Yes, it wasn't working for me. Not sure if it was my environment or my lack of patience. Given the old system they are trying to extend and enhance, I'm not surprised it didn't work.
mindcrime 11y ago
Dying? I doubt it. While it's not the tool of the "cool kids" anymore, it Just Works, and it has gotten better in some important ways with the last couple of releases. I have to admit, when they started the whole 4.x thing, I was not a fan, and I do still think a lot of work went into making Eclipse more "web based" in a way that didn't actually add much value. And as result, the UI got buggy and it got slower and less stable. But at least with the Mars release, Eclipse works amazingly well. The performance is reasonable, most all of the plugins I want to use installed cleanly and work with no problems, etc. The only real fly in the ointment to me, is something that isn't any fault of Eclipse itself. The Groovy/Grails IDE has not(last time I looked anyway) shipped a Mars compatible version, meaning I'm stuck using an older version of Eclipse for doing Groovy/Grails work. But that's mostly, as far as I can tell, a side effect of Pivotal dropping their support for Groovy and Grails.
- justthistime_ 11y ago
  > it Just Works That's what I'm praying for every single day before I start Eclipse. Sadly, Eclipse keeps inventing new ways in which it breaks.
  - mindcrime 11y ago
    Interesting... I've had glitches here and there in the past, but most seemed to be related to certain combinations of plugins. But the Mars release, even with the Scala IDE, Counterclockwise and a bunch of other stuff added, really "Just Works" for me.
alistproducer2 11y ago
eclipse for java. notepadd++ for js and php. moving to android studio, but it's been pianful so far.

65 points by pdeva1 11y ago

Required: http://theprofoundprogrammer.com/post/29839282968/text-ive-got-ninety-nine-problems-and-eclipse http://theprofoundprogrammer.com/post/29839282968/text-ive-g...

alanfranzoni 11y ago

Imho Eclipse has never been a good ide. Its confusing user experience never appealed me. But then, it was free and had certain features and was quite extensible. Then Netbeans began improving quickly, IDEA had a free edition and Jetbrains released many good IDEs for other languages as well. Game over.

joshstrange 11y ago
I've always despised Eclipse. It was always a PITA and was a resource hog. It turned me off of all IDE's for years until I came back and saw the light with IDEA & friends.
tootie 11y ago
Eclipse set the bar in terms of having an utterly vast list of features and wild west bazaar of plugins. It was like market research for the more sophisticated vendors. IntelliJ has the 30% of features users actually wanted with a much tighter implementation.
- mamon 11y ago
  My impression is quite different: IntelliJ has comparable set of features, but the difference is that in IntelliJ those features actually work without annoying user. this started with a simple but brilliant idea JetBrains developers had: "disk space is dirt cheap, let's use 1-2 GB of it to store index, so that autocompletion could work lightining fast". Also, because it was initially developed by single company and single team of developers IDEA code (both core and plugins) is much more consistent in terms of quality than Eclipse's counterparts.
  - tmd83 11y ago
    I am a long time happy user of IDEA but they seem to be always screwing up index these days. There has been version when the responsiveness of autocomplete has plummet. It has gone faster in places and slower in others. I think in general the worst case performance (people remember the annoyances more) has often regressed between releases too much. It seems every software out there is getting more features but the produces are getting sloppy and bug prone.
  - alanfranzoni 11y ago
    I agree completely. While Eclipse had a lot of plugins, it was often difficult to make them work together; so I was stuck with multiple Eclipse or eclipse customizations with a different set of plugins for each one. IDEA has probably less features, and third party plugins don't necessarily work well together; but you can see the idea of the "ide as a whole" behind Jetbrains products.
the_af 11y ago
I disagree. Eclipse used to be a capable IDE, even if some UI choices were dubious (but everyone has opinions about interface design, don't they?) It was free & open source, and had superb autocompletion and refactoring, and a decent debugger. What else could you ask of a Java IDE? Unfortunately, it seems to me Eclipse has become more unusable, slow and confusing with each iteration. But it didn't start that way. I seem to remember one major version which completely changed the UI, and at the same time the team disabled most UI tests, and the justification was "most tests broke with the latest change, and we don't have enough resources to fix them". And it showed...
fs111 11y ago
sorry, but I find the IDEA ui a lot more confusing than eclipse. Must be long time exposure...
mcs_ 11y ago
Agree, what about settings and configuration... export your eclipse settings from one workstation to another can be half day of work.

laveur 11y ago

Good let it fall to the wayside while better tools come along.

thrownaway2424 11y ago

DRAM shares plummet.

bhouston 11y ago

It seems that only one guy is responsible for most of JDT: Markus Keller: https://github.com/eclipse/eclipse.jdt.ui/graphs/contributors https://github.com/eclipse/eclipse.jdt.ui/graphs/contributor... https://github.com/eclipse/eclipse.jdt/graphs/contributors https://github.com/eclipse/eclipse.jdt/graphs/contributors https://github.com/eclipse/eclipse.jdt.core/graphs/contributors https://github.com/eclipse/eclipse.jdt.core/graphs/contribut...

mataug 11y ago

I started using Eclipse as a netbeans convert, I loved it initially until ofcourse I started using IDEA from Jetbrains. This has been the case with most of my friends so I'm not really surprised by the lack of interest in Eclipse.

chaostheory 11y ago

imo Eclipse's main flaw was that plugins just didn't work or stay working. It seemed to have gotten better in later years but it still wasn't good enough for work. I'm not sure how not using Swing affected development either since Swing had some huge improvements in 1.7 Intellij pretty much took over

spiralpolitik 11y ago

Eclipse teaches developers so many bad habits that I will be quite happy for it to die in the fire.

ljk 11y ago
been using eclipse since in school so never thought about it, but what are the bad habits?
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- spiralpolitik 11y ago
  Two examples: - Dependencies between modules in the same source base for one, which given the most common setup (single workspace) Eclipse will quite happily ignore and treat everything as one module. - The default static analysis setup misses so many common things (unused imports, methods, variables) that whenever I open a class in IntelliJ I have to spend 5 minutes removing the cruft. In its time Eclipse was a good IDE, but its time has passed.
  - Karunamon 11y ago
    That second one confuses me, Eclipse as of the three days ago I last opened it absolutely does warn about unused imports, methods, and variables. And this is with the bog standard out of the box configuration.
  - anthonybsd 11y ago
    > Dependencies between modules in the same source base for one, which given the most common setup (single workspace) Eclipse will quite happily ignore and treat everything as one module. Wait what? I have no idea what you are talking about. If modules are depending upon each other via Maven, you simply stick dependant one to the other's classpath if you want to use the workspace version. > The default static analysis setup misses so many common things (unused imports, methods, variables) that whenever I open a class in IntelliJ I have to spend 5 minutes removing the cruft. I'm looking at the same project here side by side and once again I'm not sure what you are referring to. If anything, some of IntelliJ assumptions for code quality can actually result in more fragile code if you aren't careful.

saidajigumi 11y ago

Many years ago, Eclipse as a whole had a few promising points: * Open-source, with an apparently large community * Extensible within itself via plugins * Some interesting GUI features: * User- and plugin- definable and customizable "perspectives" that captured specific workflows, e.g. debugging, language X editing, schema editing, etc. * For its time, relative to other IDEs (Visual Studio, I'm lookin' at you) a much easier approach to managing panes and tabs to the user's liking. * The fantastic ability to quickly narrow the settings pane navigation via text search. OS X's System Preferences later added a similar feature to find & narrow pref panes based on a keyword search. I still feel that there's untapped opportunity for GUIs and traditional editor modes (emacs/vim) to leverage spinoffs from this interaction model. That said, Eclipse never seemed to surmount what I feel were its major difficulties: * The Workspace -- IMO the most absolutely toxic abstraction an IDE has ever had. All "projects" must live under a "workspace" which is both an on-disk top-level directory+data that users must cope with above their project(s) and an inescapable in-code monstrosity that plugin writers must also cope with. This was a mimicking of other IDEs that thought it was a good idea to maintain an entire separate organizational data structure for code that created a separate hierarchy that duplicated and obscured the on-disk organization, and a short-sighted hard-coding of a Java-centric mindset where any non-trivial codebase was certainly going to consist of multiple interdependent projects. The Workspace was a core architectural disaster. A symptom: it made Eclipse ridiculously painful to use to, e.g., "just edit a python file". Contrast with TextMate's lightweight approach of "a directory is a project" and fast in-project navigation/fuzzy search tools. No state was required other than what was on disk. TextMate's full power and bundles were available with zero friction for either project-centric for file-centric work. * Speed -- The more time goes on, the less excusable Eclipse's dog-slow performance is. Early on, it was easy to overlook its slugishness, because reasons. Some recent work has had me suddenly delving back into (two different!) Eclipse projects, and its amazing just how the poor the UI responsiveness compares to other modern environments, even on screamingly fast hardware. * Extensibility schizophrenia -- Despite Eclipse being extensible through plugins, those were really envisioned as third-party shippable modules. User configuration was a separate second-class sytem, entirely GUI-managed, and a major pain to clone to a new system. Compare to how Emacs & Vim work with a VCS-managed home directory, or even just a zip file or tarball. In no small part, this came from Eclipse's foundations on an early Java/JVM compiled-only mindset. With no scriptability baked into that platform, there was little choice but to have a strong divide between code (plugin) vs. data (configuration).

lchengify 11y ago

I have a love / hate relationship with Eclipse. On one hand it's everything I've always wanted development to be: Technically correct, free, pluggable and open source. On the other hand I've upgraded my computer 8 times in the past 10 years and Eclipse is constant in its ability to always be way to slow to do anything. I now use JetBrains IDE's and VIM and it's a totally different world. It's nice to not have to think about what random Eclipse plugin is colliding with what other random minor version update that is stopping me from using the debugger correctly. Sometimes if a task is complex, annoying and specific enough, it's better to just pay a company to produce a maintained tool rather than relying on the open source community to just "solve it for you". A good analogy might be Gimp vs Photoshop. Gimp is great for learning and gets you there, but if your job depends on it, it starts making economic sense to pay someone for something better. I started using Eclipse back at School and it was great at getting me into programming. It will always have a place in my heart ... just not on my hard drive :/

hugi 11y ago
I have the exact opposite experience. I've attempted to switch to IntelliJ on multiple occasions in the past couple of years but I've never gotten it to feel as fast and flexible as Eclipse. Is it possible you're comparing to old versions; Eclipse used to be really slow 4-5 years ago, but the current versions running on an SSD are blazing fast. If there's one thing I hate about Eclipse, it's that it's kind of ugly :).
- lchengify 11y ago
  So it's totally possible, my Eclipse journey ended about 3 years ago and I've never looked back. Also for the past 2 years I haven't been coding much java, mainly python django / javascript. And I will say the tooling for django debugging in PyCharm is really excellent, both in setting it up and daily use. The Eclipse plugin might work but really PyCharm is the meth of debugging setups: It'd be hard to leave.
- tokenizerrr 11y ago
  Whenever I try to switch IntelliJ I hit a few roadblocks that force me to turn back to eclipse, sadly. * No true multiproject/workspace support (with maven integration) * Slower compile times than in Eclipse, somehow * Have to hit an extra shortcut after editing a file for a hot reload to happen while debugging Am I just crazy, or are these really areas that IntelliJ is weaker in than Eclipse?

ruk_booze 11y ago

The log begs to differ http://git.eclipse.org/c/jdt/eclipse.jdt.core.git/log/ http://git.eclipse.org/c/jdt/eclipse.jdt.core.git/log/

alanfranzoni 11y ago
Yes... it seems very different than the activity shown on the project page... 108 commits in the latest four months is not that bad. Why such difference in data?
- mmilinkov 11y ago
  Please see above. It's because the JDT project page doesn't roll up the stats from its sub-projects, where all the real work happens. We're looking into fixing that.

agumonkey 11y ago

Eclipse is Emacs done wrong. ps: oops, that was meant to be an answer for https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10274067 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10274067

tonyarkles 11y ago
I've chuckled a few times in this discussion where people have been asking "Have you tried Eclipse on an SSD?" Know what makes an IDE work even better than an SSD? Being able to fit the entire thing in RAM and not have to page out all the time. Other than the speed part, the main reason I keep using Emacs is because of the easy-to-access-remotely part of it. I've got a nice beefy Linux box at home that I can ssh into. Tmux keeps my sessions alive. Emacs lets me do all of the code editing. And the nice little Surface 3 is easy to carry around and makes a fantastic SSH terminal.
- nkhodyunya 11y ago
  Isn't TRAMP a way to manage remote files that is way better than starting emacs directly on a remote machine?
- agumonkey 11y ago
  Emacs isn't perfect, and Emacs was the Eclipse of its day. But it makes a lot of sense so many times. Very pragmatic, extensible simply. It's still thin spaghetti compared to the "sturdiness" of Java/Eclipse. But I've seen the internal long time ago and it was just a fatter model of spaghetti. Anything in Eclipse requires a lot of efforts, and too many times the original goal gets diluted in the implementation. I said it elsewhere, after spending 2004-2007 on Eclipse, then leaving for Emacs, I recently had to go back to Eclipse, it's not better, git integration is useless, lots of windows for no reason, a very special kind of UI, maybe suitable for people that likes windows and mouse. It's sad because it comes from the same community that creates the most job friendly systems, so if you wanna play with JEE/Maven/EMF/..., you'll end up needing something like Eclipse, because of this subtle synergy.

RyanZAG 11y ago

Kind of surprised by the comments here regarding speed. Have none of you used Eclipse recently on an SSD? I use Jetbrain's stuff a lot of the time, but the biggest problem Jetbrain's stuff has is how terribly slow it is compared to Eclipse. Are these comments just relics of experience from years ago, or is there some secret I'm using in having Eclipse be around 2x the speed of Jetbrains? Just tried opening an Android Java project in both Eclipse and Android Studio and the Eclipse is finished loading before Android Studio is even 20% Other than that, Eclipse is free software which is important in the same way Linux is important to cultivate even though we have Windows.

lchengify 11y ago
So it's never been the SSDs for me, it's always been paging / memory consumption. When I run Eclipse / JetBrains I set the XmX flags super high on the JVM to compensate, but it still always felt slower. Basically I've found that a lot of Eclipse plugins and core pieces associated with the debugger allocate a lot of heap space that never goes away. However I haven't used Eclipse in about 3 years (or on Java 8), or for Android, so if there's something new I'm missing, your point might be valid.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
the_af 11y ago
> Other than that, Eclipse is free software which is important in the same way Linux is important to cultivate even though we have Windows. I fully share your sentiment. The rest of my comment is eclipsed (no pun intended!) by this. That said, SSDs are still not that widely deployed in my country, and almost never in cheap developer laptops. Yes, yes, we can argue all day long about why employers still consider buying good developer machines a needless expense, but meanwhile accept that in many places in the world that is the case. So the question becomes... when the hell did Eclipse decide that in order to work decently you had to use an SSD? Why did its performance degrade so much; what new and revolutionary features did this performance degradation buy us? And why does IntelliJ work so much faster in the same, non-SSD hardware?

guelo 11y ago

I'm always so confused by comment threads like this page. I used Eclipse daily for 6 years then was forced to switch and now I've been using IntelliJ daily for the past 2 years. So I think I'm qualified to make a fair comparison and I still vastly prefer Eclipse. But then I look at comment threads like this page and it's all about how superior IntelliJ is. It always leaves me confused, like I'm missing something about IntelliJ but I don't know what it is.

paperwork 11y ago
Same here. I haven't used eclipse in the past two years because I've been doing non-java work. Before that I used it since the beginning of my career, around 2000. I don't recall having issues with slowness and plugins randomly not working. When I first started using it, I remember being a bit confused by projects vs files. That's when I didn't understand the concept of IDEs (as opposed to text editors). I feel like I'm living in an alternative universe.
- simoncion 11y ago
  I was using Eclipse for a couple of years for C++ and Java work (some of that work was building things on Eclipse) about three years back. Once you increased a few limits like the Java max heap size [0] Eclipse was a bit slow to start, but -once started- was no slower than any other full-featured IDE I'd used. CDT was really nice, and the Java tooling worked as well as I expected it to. The two really big issues I had were the really terrible dependency resolver -which not infrequently required you to update packages in stages, playing the "Which package(s) is giving the dep resolver grief now?" game for several fives of minutes-, and Eclipse's tendency to cache all sorts of file state. Once you learned what Eclipse cached, you knew what sorts of things to not do outside of Eclipse, but until then... oh, the mysterious errors one was likely to receive! :P [0] Rant: Why the fuck is this even a tunable? Every other program I use (including software written with a language that targets a GC'd VM like C# or Erlang) is completely capable of regulating its own memory usage. Why does Java need me to tell it how much memory it is allowed to use?
muhuk 11y ago
I think it's because IntelliJ has a greater cool factor. Exact same thing happens with Apple. Apple customers, say macbook users, complain about the high prices, subpar hardware, iTunes and other software issues in private. But then the same people can brag about their macbook in a different context. Eclipse is just not as cool as IntelliJ. But it gets the work done. And has more capabilities, and is open source, etc. etc. Yet, Eclipse is not cool. So we see an eagerness to point at its weak points. My personal comparison: Once you have the right plugins it's super easy to create a scala project with maven in Eclipse. I had to download scala sources and tell IntelliJ their location, still it didn't work. Forget about maven. (I'm sure IntelliJ gurus can set it up, my point is it's not easy for n00bs)

lolive 11y ago

Do you realize that some people are coding Javascript (sic) in Notepad (sic)? So please, let's be serious. Eclipse (and IntelliJ, and Netbeans) are f.cking AWESOME productivity tools !!!!

landryraccoon 11y ago

Suppose you have a hard requirement that your tools are free and open source. What IDE would you recommend as a replacement for Eclipse? (JetBrains is out, it's neither free nor open source). The worry I have with Eclipse dying is that there isn't a great completely open alternative.

douche 11y ago
There is a community edition of IntelliJ that is open source https://github.com/JetBrains/intellij-community https://github.com/JetBrains/intellij-community
- landryraccoon 11y ago
  Do you know if there is a python plugin for the open source edition?
  - alblue 11y ago
    No, there is not. The community edition of IntelliJ only supports basic Java development (no JavaScript or other languages).

PaulHoule 11y ago

Yes. I know a lot of iOS developers that hate development for Android and I think Eclipse is a major reason. Unlike Linuxers, Macers know that a good user interface is possible thus they can't put up with the crashing, slowness, pluginitis,...

forgottenpass 11y ago
>$us have $good_property, $they don't even know $good_property can exist. Thanks for the insightful analysis.
jschwartzi 11y ago
There's a reason Android Studio exists now.
taormina 11y ago
Nowadays, Android Studio has become the default IDE for Android development, and Eclipse support hasn't been a primary objective in quite a while. Also, XCode is not what I would call a good user interface....

anthonybsd 11y ago

It's really sad to see this happening. I prefer IntelliJ for most of my development work, but certain things it's completely unsuitable for. Debugging multi-threaded code in particular in IntelliJ is a very paintful experience compared to Eclipse.

mmilinkov 11y ago

"A lie can travel halfway around the world before the truth can get its boots on" JDT is not dying. I am the Executive Director of the Eclipse Foundation, and I am here to tell you that the commit numbers quoted in the blog post are completely bogus. The stats shown on the Eclipse project pages only show the activity in the master branch. At the moment, the vast majority of the JDT activity is happening in a separate Java 9 branch. If you actually look at the git repositories directly (see link below for one repo), you can find a couple hundred commits in September, not zero. The other thing going on is that the team has been in rampdown mode for the Mars.1 release shipping in the first week of October. A code freeze leading to a release is standard operating procedure for the Eclipse project. In summary, this article is based on incorrect and incomplete numbers, and is entirely misleading. http://git.eclipse.org/c/jdt/eclipse.jdt.core.git/stats/?period=m&ofs=10 http://git.eclipse.org/c/jdt/eclipse.jdt.core.git/stats/?per...

pdeva1 11y ago
Are you denying that : 1. The chart screenshots are not from your website? 2. the screenshot of New and Noteworthy is not correct? 3. The screenshot of mailing list is not correct? 4. the screenshot showing website not update in years is incorrect?
- alblue 11y ago
  No, he is saying that the website is generated from a different branch to the one that is being worked on at the moment.
- mmilinkov 11y ago
  "Deny"? No, not really. What I am saying is that pretty much every factoid in that blog post is either wrong or taken out of context. Again: JDT is just fine. It is not dying. Yes the chart screenshots are from our website. But I can also confirm that the chart screenshots show only the data from the the top-level JDT project. It is not including the sub-projects. We have someone working on fixing that now. Here is a summary of the commits since June: +-------------------+---------+ | project | commits | +-------------------+---------+ | eclipse.jdt | 8 | | eclipse.jdt.core | 165 | | eclipse.jdt.debug | 18 | | eclipse.jdt.ui | 34 | +-------------------+---------+ As I said all the work is happening in the Java 9 branch, and are not being included. Take a look at the link I included in my original post, which shows 108 commits in jdt.core just in the last month. Re: New and Noteworthy, as I said the team is focused on Java 9....there will be lots of content there when they have something. Re: mailing list - Mailing lists are Eclipse are not like many other open source projects. They only use them for internal project conversations. (Yes, I know that's sort of weird.) If you want to find where the action is at Eclipse, you don't look at the mailing lists. Look in Bugzilla. I'll try to find the right query and link it here to show what I mean. Re: Website: Yes, that is totally bogus. Yes, the project doesn't pay a lot of attention to that. That's at least partially because we focus on [1] as the landing page for users. [1] https://www.eclipse.org/ide/ https://www.eclipse.org/ide/

barrkel 11y ago

Post open sourcing, Eclipse development was supported by IBM for strategic reasons, in opposition to MS. When Oracle bought Sun, the strategic relationship changed, and IBM saw less reason to invest in Oracle tech. IMO Eclipse is a product of a particular type of engineering, one that is done on a 9-5 payroll, and never as a labour of love. I've always found it awkward to use and surprisingly difficult to configure - even simple things like syntax highlighting is spread over multiple locations in the byzantine preferences. The whole perspectives thing, and its obsession with you selecting a workspace, up front, which is distinct from the project you're working on - it forces the user to adopt its internal idioms and jargon, rather than the other way around. Eclipse killed off JBuilder's original IDE back in the day, undercutting it. I far preferred JBuilder's UI.

mmilinkov 11y ago
I sort of agree that Eclipse started out that way (mostly paid for by IBM), but I am happy to report that the community has evolved a great deal since those days. If you take a look at the Platform UI project, for example, you will see a very diverse project, with a lot of unaffiliated committers. https://projects.eclipse.org/projects/eclipse.platform.ui/who https://projects.eclipse.org/projects/eclipse.platform.ui/wh...
simoncion 11y ago
The preferences window would be useless without its search box. I found Perspectives odd at first, but I grew to like them. For the work I was doing, being able to set up a couple of modes, each with its own set of open and positioned windows was rather useful. As to workspaces, I initially found it strange that I was expected to have like all of my projects in a given workspace, but Working Sets (or whatever the thing was called that opened certain sets of projects and closed all others) made that pretty reasonable. I did end up having separate workspaces for my C++ work and my Java work, though.

EdSharkey 11y ago

Eclipse has always been a needed and valuable IDE for Java development. If I wanted to spin up a Java app with Maven, I could do okay with Eclipse. Refactoring tools work fine, debugging is great. Support for languages OTHER than Java, however, vary wildly in terms of value. One language support that seems to have crossed over into complete obsolescence is JavaScript. I hate to break it to you Eclipse Foundation, but developing JavaScript on a WebIDE is completely out of the question for many of us, so your fancy Orion system is a non-starter. It's mean of me to say, but I'm rooting for Orion to fail so you can move those developers back to enhancing the desktop IDE's JavaScript support. Eclipse JSDT is my only option, and it seems broken and unmaintained. Around the 2008 timeframe, I was really impressed with JSDT's ability to build out a type library as it parsed my prototypes, it really understood the type system when I added JSDocs. It all works ok for rink-a-dink projects that are targeting the browser and coexisting with HTML. But, for any modern development like server-side Node.JS or CommonJS browserify/webpack projects in the browser, ES6 or anything modern, Eclipse JSDT is really up a creek without a paddle. I can't use you, and that makes me so sad to say because I WAS a staunch Eclipse user who turned his nose up at JetBrains! To make matters worse, Eclipse has gotten slower and buggy since the last major upgrade (Luna?) and WebStorm is cheap and great and amazing at parsing JSDoc's to the point it practically turns JavaScript into a statically typed language, and it groks CommonJS and my node_modules folder (with the help of a little plugin I downloaded.) I admit I haven't tried running Eclipse in a year, so perhaps the bugginess has been addressed.

Flenser 11y ago
Have you tried nodeclipse¹? I haven't tried it yet but am considering it for when I next have to do a lot of js work. [1] http://www.nodeclipse.org/ http://www.nodeclipse.org/
- EdSharkey 11y ago
  Yes, it wasn't working for me. Not sure if it was my environment or my lack of patience. Given the old system they are trying to extend and enhance, I'm not surprised it didn't work.

mindcrime 11y ago

Dying? I doubt it. While it's not the tool of the "cool kids" anymore, it Just Works, and it has gotten better in some important ways with the last couple of releases. I have to admit, when they started the whole 4.x thing, I was not a fan, and I do still think a lot of work went into making Eclipse more "web based" in a way that didn't actually add much value. And as result, the UI got buggy and it got slower and less stable. But at least with the Mars release, Eclipse works amazingly well. The performance is reasonable, most all of the plugins I want to use installed cleanly and work with no problems, etc. The only real fly in the ointment to me, is something that isn't any fault of Eclipse itself. The Groovy/Grails IDE has not(last time I looked anyway) shipped a Mars compatible version, meaning I'm stuck using an older version of Eclipse for doing Groovy/Grails work. But that's mostly, as far as I can tell, a side effect of Pivotal dropping their support for Groovy and Grails.

justthistime_ 11y ago
> it Just Works That's what I'm praying for every single day before I start Eclipse. Sadly, Eclipse keeps inventing new ways in which it breaks.
- mindcrime 11y ago
  Interesting... I've had glitches here and there in the past, but most seemed to be related to certain combinations of plugins. But the Mars release, even with the Scala IDE, Counterclockwise and a bunch of other stuff added, really "Just Works" for me.

alistproducer2 11y ago

eclipse for java. notepadd++ for js and php. moving to android studio, but it's been pianful so far.