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I expected some story of deception, very interesting story, but I was a bit disappointed.

by ohashi 11y ago

vonmoltke 11y ago
It was a deception, in that the whole thing was constructed to make the Japanese think the USN had one more operational heavy carrier than they actually did.
- rstupek 11y ago
  But didn't they (in a round about sort of way) since there were two carriers instead of one? Wouldn't making something think you had something that wasn't really there be something different?
  - vonmoltke 11y ago
    Victorious was not nearly as capable as Saratoga. The former only carried ~36 aircraft while the latter carried ~90. Making the Japanese think the other heavy carrier was American would cause them to overestimate the strength of the air group and make it less likely that they would send their own carrier battle group down to challenge American operations.
    - rjsw 11y ago
      The Saratoga was big but you are not really comparing like with like. At that point in the war the Royal Navy carriers didn't park aircraft on deck as they had been mainly operating in the North Atlantic with bad weather conditions and in the Mediterranean where they could be attacked by land-based aircraft. The Victorious carried more aircraft later in the war.
      - vonmoltke 11y ago
        I don't remember offhand when her air group size increased. I think it was after this point in the war, though. She got Avengers and Martlets in December of 1942, but I don't think the size of the air group was increased at that point.
      - ZanyProgrammer 11y ago
        They were never comparable in air wing size.
- ohashi 11y ago
  But there literally was another carrier. They stated it openly flew the Union Jack too. It's not really a deception if there is real live carrier right there flying US planes.
  - vonmoltke 11y ago
    It is if the Japanese believe the carrier is more powerful than it actually is. See my other reply. Edit: WRT the statement about the Union Jack, the jig would be up if the Japanese actually launched an air strike against the task force since the strike pilots would get close enough to clearly see what ship she actually was. Submarines and recon aircraft, however, would probably not be able to get that close and thus would just report a second, presumably American, carrier.

I expected some story of deception, very interesting story, but I was a bit disappointed.

by ohashi 11y ago

I expected some story of deception, very interesting story, but I was a bit disappointed.

It was a deception, in that the whole thing was constructed to make the Japanese think the USN had one more operational heavy carrier than they actually did.

rstupek 11y ago
But didn't they (in a round about sort of way) since there were two carriers instead of one? Wouldn't making something think you had something that wasn't really there be something different?
- vonmoltke 11y ago
  Victorious was not nearly as capable as Saratoga. The former only carried ~36 aircraft while the latter carried ~90. Making the Japanese think the other heavy carrier was American would cause them to overestimate the strength of the air group and make it less likely that they would send their own carrier battle group down to challenge American operations.
  - rjsw 11y ago
    The Saratoga was big but you are not really comparing like with like. At that point in the war the Royal Navy carriers didn't park aircraft on deck as they had been mainly operating in the North Atlantic with bad weather conditions and in the Mediterranean where they could be attacked by land-based aircraft. The Victorious carried more aircraft later in the war.
    - vonmoltke 11y ago
      I don't remember offhand when her air group size increased. I think it was after this point in the war, though. She got Avengers and Martlets in December of 1942, but I don't think the size of the air group was increased at that point.
    - ZanyProgrammer 11y ago
      They were never comparable in air wing size.
ohashi 11y ago
But there literally was another carrier. They stated it openly flew the Union Jack too. It's not really a deception if there is real live carrier right there flying US planes.
- vonmoltke 11y ago
  It is if the Japanese believe the carrier is more powerful than it actually is. See my other reply. Edit: WRT the statement about the Union Jack, the jig would be up if the Japanese actually launched an air strike against the task force since the strike pilots would get close enough to clearly see what ship she actually was. Submarines and recon aircraft, however, would probably not be able to get that close and thus would just report a second, presumably American, carrier.